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    04 Aug 2011: Hungaroring

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    Piers Structures
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    Re: 04 Aug 2011: Hungaroring

    Post by Piers Structures on Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:25 pm

    Somewhat disappointing race for me. Qualified tenth, but managed at the race start to avoid the apparent first corner mayhem and was sitting third behind Antonio Lallo by turn 2. I knew that wouldn't last since I was well out of place pace wise but thought I might get a reasonable place if I could avoid mistakes. Mostly kept up with him for a while until Gek caught up and I made a small mistake letting him past, then felt my tyres were going off. Then Paul and Clive sauntered past and Ferran Sanson. After the pitstop arround lap 25 I came out 6th until again Gek came past around lap 40. I could see Fabio catching up but was hoping to hold him off. He caught me on Lap 44 as we came on a back marker at turn13, then crashed into the back of me at turn 15. I think the neighbours might have heard some very very bad language at that point. He seemed to get off lightly and carry on but my back wheel was trashed and I had to esc to pit. I came back out a lap down in 10th ... and there I finished.
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    Fabio Grippa
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    Re: 04 Aug 2011: Hungaroring

    Post by Fabio Grippa on Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:13 pm

    As I said yesterday Piers it was totally my fault, sorry for the accident, I was really fast at that time as my tires were in good condition, I tried to stay close to you at turn 13 to try to overtake you on the main straight, as I realized that I was too fast I tired a desperate braking but I hit you, very softly, but we know the results....Very bad race for me, a lot of crash, sorry also to Davide for the contact with you...

    I was put off at T1 by Ferran I guess, then my race became difficult, with a lot of mistakes trying to recover some positions...

    I hope to be back at my usually fair level at SPA in some weeks...

    Piers Structures
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    Re: 04 Aug 2011: Hungaroring

    Post by Piers Structures on Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:42 pm

    Fabio, you apologised profusely after the race and I didn't mean my report as a ... 'bitch' at you. I enjoy racing with all of the folks in the series and we've had some fantastic racing both in the events and in the lead up practice sessions. These things happen - that's racing. I hope we can all forgive each other a few mistakes.

    Of course, that said I have taken out a contract on you, your immediate and extended family. But that's just a matter of honour - not racing ;-).

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    Re: 04 Aug 2011: Hungaroring

    Post by Piers Structures on Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:44 pm

    Meanwhile, can anyone please explain in words I can understand, what was happening with the pitstops? As far as I can see, Mika should have been 1st - no?
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    M Carey
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    Re: 04 Aug 2011: Hungaroring

    Post by M Carey on Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:15 pm

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    Clive Melbourne
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    Re: 04 Aug 2011: Hungaroring

    Post by Clive Melbourne on Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:56 pm

    Had an ok Qul , 6th with a 1.22.3 , just could not get into the 1.21's .

    Got an average start , stayed close to the inside line at T1 managing to avoid the accident.
    I was surprised to be in p2 after T1, managed to stay with mika for about 3 laps, but then he pulled away at about 1 second a lap.
    I could see that I was pulling out a gap to Lallo behind, so I settled in a steady pace of mid 1.24's.
    As Paul and I speak on skype during the race I knew he had better pace than me and was making up positions , so only a matter of time before he closed in on me.
    At about 10/15 laps to go I did a quick fuel calculation in my head, and thought that it was going to be close, so I started to short shift a little, to save a little fuel.
    With 4 laps to go Paul had caught me ,but kept him me behind until the start of the last lap , where I made a tiny mistake at the last corner and he passed me.
    Finished 0.6 sec behind Paul , with 0.3L of fuel remaining , and did my fastest lap of the race on the last lap.

    So bring on SPA , a track that I really love.
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    MikaRaymond
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    Re: 04 Aug 2011: Hungaroring

    Post by MikaRaymond on Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:48 am

    i went into this race quite confident after getting my setup pretty bang on early during the week. of course nobody can catch gek in qual so that was expected anyway. i was 0.6s off my PB but i think thats due to staying inside the white lines, while gek got his PB of 1.20 dead - i question whether he cut the corners or not: the admins need to check his qual lap please.

    i had quite a good start compared to gek. it seemed he had a slow reaction and i managed to pull along side by the pit exit. i suddenly found ferran between us to the left and fabio just to my right - nice slipstream guys! we were 4 abreast heading into t1 so i decided to back off slightly early to avoid incidents, which is what happened. i managed to undercut all 3 of them and start pulling out a lead after 2/3 laps to clive.

    the rest went as planned apart from what giancarlo explained. i really have no idea what happened, apart from i never got overtook and somehow came out 4th after my pit? i just lapped ferran the lap before, and when i came out the pits he was just ahead, so i lost 100sec in the pits. not a physical mistake but a bad calculation on the track. as clive said last night, there needs to be a checklist when creating tracks so these things dont happen again
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    Silvio Tavares
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    Re: 04 Aug 2011: Hungaroring

    Post by Silvio Tavares on Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:00 am

    Nice race reports.. enjoyed reading them all... sounds like u had fun!


    Thanks to everyone trying to help me out.. I will try to check for your advises and see if I can discover why the hell my issue was all about... then I can have a race report to write as well.. lol


    Cheers to all!

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    Re: 04 Aug 2011: Hungaroring

    Post by f.gek on Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:15 am

    in gara mi era sembrato di essera sto colpito al t1 pur essendo rimasto molto largo alla prima curva , ma poi vedendo il replay che mi ha fornito giancarlo ho visto che in realta sembra che sia io che mi avvicino troppo velocemente al rientro andando a colpire fabio che a sua volta colpisce ferran. Mi piacerebbe vedere il replay di fabio per verificare che sia proprio andata cosi (a volte i replay sono molto differenti per via dei lag ).in tutti i casi le mie scuse a fabio e ferran e tutti quelli coinvolti bell incidente. La strategia era su due soste e senza l'incidente in t1 sarebbe stato un gran duello con mika, poi il problema dei pits stop. Ho superato molte macchine anche se avevo le bandiere blu perche sapevo per certo che non ero doppiato ma che era un problema del conteggio dei giri, ma questo penso che lo abbiano capito tutti. nella classifica finale ho il 6 posto , ma controllando il replay si puo verirficare che in realta sono arrivato 2 a circa 30 sec da mika. Ultime due gare un po troppo distratto, spero a spa di ritrovare la concentrazione giusta.



    I was in the race seemed to be struck at t1 even though I was very wide at the first corner, but then I saw the replay provided giancarlo I saw that in reality it seems that both I and I approached too quickly to re going to hit fabio which in turn affects ferran. I'd like to see the replay of this person to verify that it went really well (sometimes the replays are very different because of the lag). In all cases, and my apologies to fabio ferran bell and those involved with accident. The strategy was on two-stop and without incident in t1 would be a great duel with Mika, then the problem of pits stops. I overtook many cars even if I had the blue flag because I knew for sure that I was not dubbed but that was a problem of counting laps, but I think they have all understood. I have 6 in the final classification place, but by controlling the replay you can verirficare that actually I got 2 to about 30 sec from mika. Last two races a little too distracted, I hope to find the right concentration of the spa.


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    Fabio Grippa
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    Re: 04 Aug 2011: Hungaroring

    Post by Fabio Grippa on Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:26 pm

    Gek, non ho salvato il mio replay purtroppo, ma direi che possiamo archiviarlo come un calssico incidente di gara...in fondo anche io sono arrivato un po' forte in T1 ed eravamo su per giu' in quattro affiancati....

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    Re: 04 Aug 2011: Hungaroring

    Post by Ferran_sanson on Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:19 pm

    qualified pretty well in 3 position

    race: i had a very good start, starting faster than gek and mika so we were three wide with them at braking point, gek went wide, and mika braked earlier, but after extiing turn1 i was hit by someone, racing accident so i had to go to box and start last, finally good catch up to 3rd position again, sorry for lallo i think we had contact but watching the replay looks like lag cu at spa!
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    MikaRaymond
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    Re: 04 Aug 2011: Hungaroring

    Post by MikaRaymond on Sun Aug 07, 2011 3:29 am

    I just checked the replay and saw fulvio go outside the white lines on every single one of his qual runs. the rules clearly state you are only allowed to use the kurb as an extension, nothing more - he uses all the extra track round t4, meaning he used the extra track as an advantage.
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    Andrea Lojelo
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    Re: 04 Aug 2011: Hungaroring

    Post by Andrea Lojelo on Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:28 am

    can you please share the replay of his fastest qualification lap?

    I've seen someone else doing it during all race to take advantage, or cutting the chicane, when nobody was watching...really bad, especially for a "new" guy...


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    MikaRaymond
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    Re: 04 Aug 2011: Hungaroring

    Post by MikaRaymond on Sun Aug 07, 2011 3:44 pm

    he goes outside the white lines on every one of his qual laps, but i think this is his fastest one:

    http://www.sendspace.com/file/gtft3l

    here is the server log:

    2011-08-04 21:53:34: M Raymond: did you go outside the white lines gek?
    2011-08-04 21:53:50: F Gek: for me its ok
    2011-08-04 21:54:02: M Raymond: so you were inside the white lines?
    no answer?
    2011-08-04 21:55:05: M Raymond: gl hf all

    M Waechter
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    Re: 04 Aug 2011: Hungaroring

    Post by M Waechter on Sun Aug 07, 2011 4:38 pm

    I noticed it too, when watching my replay-file, that some (very) few of the faster guys (not Mika) were using all of the outside of t4 (fast left) + t10 (the fast right) and t11 (2nd gear right) like every lap (I did not check if it was really like in every single one, but behaviour looked s.th. like that). Not a very clean behaviour of some drivers.., I hope this will be / was an track-specific exception.

    In quite a very few laps I got over the curb of t10 too, but only in laps(laptimes) that were crap as whole anyway Wink.
    Some did take it as their nomal limit almost every lap and this is not ok.
    But maybe it's not a big problem in this race regarding the result, because Gek was 'doomed' anyway by having to start the race from behind after the crash of some drivers including him in t1, but
    for cutting in the qualy there this much it maybe should happen some penalisation.

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    Re: 04 Aug 2011: Hungaroring

    Post by Piers Structures on Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:34 pm

    Well, looking at the replay I see I was over the line in T4 for most of the race, for which I apologise, and I'm happy to take any penalty. I also cut the chicane 3 times, not trying to gain advantage - just too hot into the entry and unable to make the turn. Not quite sure what else I could do in that situation but again if the powers that be think that merits a penalty, I'll take it without complaint.
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    M Carey
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    Re: 04 Aug 2011: Hungaroring

    Post by M Carey on Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:06 pm

    Blame the circuit owners for taking away the gravel traps Very Happy
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    Maarten Steverink
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    Re: 04 Aug 2011: Hungaroring

    Post by Maarten Steverink on Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:37 pm

    So true Marius. I hope there can be something in the game that penalises you as soon as you cross a line...like a box of sand of some sort :-D So stupid to take these things away.

    Anyway, the rules do state that crossing the line isn't allowed, and it's not that hard to understand.

    M.

    f.gek
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    Re: 04 Aug 2011: Hungaroring

    Post by f.gek on Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:42 pm

    Non capisco il tuo reclamo, io ho guardato il replay di graziano (il mio inizia dal 6 giro e lo posso fornire) delle tue qualifiche e su 6 giri al t4 sei uscito fuori 6 volte. Io ti sto dicendo che non puoi prendere in considerazione al 100 % il replay di un'altro perche la macchina viene posizionata in modo leggermente diverso e magari sembra dentro ad un muro mentre invece chi la guida è dentro il tracciato. Watcher t1 è stato il tuo problema in qualifica .. infatti piu di una volta sei andato sopra bridgestone sponsor... o dico male? in questo circuito piu o meno tutti sono usciti dalla pista.
    Mi sembra una polemica inutile, ma se deve essere fatto , direi di controllare tutti e poi ci facciamo un paio di risate
    I do not understand your complaint, I watched the replay of Graziano (my start from around 6 and I can provide) of your qualifications and 6 laps in t4 you came out 6 times. I'm telling you that you can not take into account the replay of another 100% because the machine is positioned a little differently and maybe looks inside a wall while driving but who is inside the track. Watcher... T1 is your problem in qualifying .. In fact, more than once you go above bridgestone sponsors ... or say wrong? in this circuit more or less everyone has left the track.
    It seems like a needless controversy, but must be done, I would say to check them all and then we make a couple of laughs

    le abbiamo capite benissimo tutti, infatti anche mika per 6 volte su 6 è andato oltre la linea al t4

    we have all understood very well here, too mika 6 times on 6 went over the line to t4


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    Re: 04 Aug 2011: Hungaroring

    Post by M Waechter on Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:17 pm

    Piers Structures wrote:Well, looking at the replay I see I was over the line in T4 for most of the race, for which I apologise, and I'm happy to take any penalty. I also cut the chicane 3 times, not trying to gain advantage - just too hot into the entry and unable to make the turn. Not quite sure what else I could do in that situation but again if the powers that be think that merits a penalty, I'll take it without complaint.


    As long as you were still on the curb with two wheels in t4 it is fine. Cutting the chicane three times in the whole race by gaining no advantage does not matter much, that will not be penalised.

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    Re: 04 Aug 2011: Hungaroring

    Post by Piers Structures on Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:21 pm

    M Carey wrote:Blame the circuit owners for taking away the gravel traps Very Happy

    True to some extent - I'm with Martin Brundle on that. But for NetKar, I think the astroturf and concrete on the runoff has far too much grip.
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    Re: 04 Aug 2011: Hungaroring

    Post by MikaRaymond on Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:31 pm

    i am not reporting you to start more controversy, i am simply saying you
    have not obeyed the rules and crossed the line more than once on your
    fastest qual time. it is absolutely clear you are not allowed to use extra track to gain an advantage. in fact, my PB is 1.20.3, whereas i did a 1.20.9 on the day.
    you actually set your PB during the event meaning its almost 100%
    certain you use more of the track than allowed.

    it seems as though RSR members have the benefit over other drivers in the champ, even when they disobey
    rules. in the past i have penalized myself (such as
    a drive through at melbourne) because im a gentleman. you knew you
    crossed the line and took advantage, yet stayed quiet in the hope nobody
    will notice. as soon as someone says something you go on the offensive
    saying the replay is wrong? it seems youre quite contempt when you want to be. take the lap bug for example - you didnt start complaining until i complained, then was adament you deserved a p2 result.

    there is no consistency. giancarlo told me personally he would not update the results, which was then backed up by andrea. less than 24hours later i check the results and they had been uploaded, with nobody telling me. dont you think thats unfair?

    the reason im posting my driver
    reports publicly is to show the community how the admins go about
    deciding punishments, because in the past they have ignored my requests,
    and you can see exactly why drivers have an advantage over me.

    lets see what other people have to say.


    Last edited by MikaRaymond on Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:40 pm; edited 4 times in total

    M Waechter
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    Re: 04 Aug 2011: Hungaroring

    Post by M Waechter on Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:31 pm

    f.gek wrote:Watcher... T1 is your problem in qualifying .. In fact, more than once you go above bridgestone sponsors ... or say wrong?


    Noone wanted to speak badly about you, I just looks a bit too wide the way like you drive t4 (and that's not only because of that lag of other guy's replays), that's just an important, simple fact (so it's not personaly meant!), because I think this way of driving in that particular corner you gain much time there.. .
    Yes I was beside the curb of t1 sometimes* (but not much and very often) and not in my qualy lap (1:23.760), just on the last attempt in qualy I got beside the curb, the lap where I lost my car later on the track.
    *That was because I approached this turn a bit badly anyway, could have driven this turn more to the inside that would have been even faster I noticed later.. .
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    Re: 04 Aug 2011: Hungaroring

    Post by Andrea Lojelo on Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:03 pm

    MikaRaymond wrote:
    it seems as though RSR members have the benefit over other drivers in the champ, even when they disobey
    rules.
    there is no consistency. giancarlo told me personally he would not update the results, which was then backed up by andrea. less than 24hours later i check the results and they had been uploaded, with nobody telling me. dont you think thats unfair?
    Mika, I think it's a bit unfair from your side to say that being a RSR member makes the difference.
    Yesterday and today you and I discussed about those issues, and I told you what was my idea about it. I even told you that I need to discuss with the other team members because in RSR we decide things together.
    We want to set a small team meeting to decide what to do about this and other problems.

    I'm currently on holiday, and I checking replays of a race I haven't even run, it is not on the top of my priorities, right now.


    As I told you, about the results being compromised by the bug on the track pitlane, isn't something new. It happened in the past to me, and in that case we decided not to modify the results, but having me loosing 1 lap and a lot of positions considering that just like a technical problem.
    The main reason for that was that it isn't easy to change results, and require a lot of overhead for us. Not only to check the single race, but can potentially create more trouble if everyone starts to complain about problems related to the software. It isn't always easy to determine the real final result.

    In any case, before making the results final I want to discuss with the all team. This is just my point of view.


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    Re: 04 Aug 2011: Hungaroring

    Post by f.gek on Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:10 pm

    Marco ovviamente con te è una semplice chiarimento.. volevo solo dirti che qui poteva capitare a tutti di utilizzare il verde , e alla guida della macchina puo anche sembrare leggermente diverso per via della velocità e dal punto di vista. . Le parole di mika non sono corrette nei confronti degli rsr. gli rsr sono corretti e cercano sempre di trovare la cosa piu giusta per tutti anche se spesso è molto difficile. infatti nel caso del incidente di melbourne mika non fu penalizzato , (non è essere uomo d'onore buttare fuori alla prima curva il proprio avversario e poi darsi un drive trought del tutto inutile) proprio perche non si voleva favorire un rsr.
    Io sono per l'applicazione delle regole, infatti richiedo di essere penalizzato.
    Lo dovrebbe chiedere anche lui per aver utilizzato in t4 il verde piu volte, e per aver sorpassato una vettura durante un rientro ai box e aver causato un incidente (in formula uno vieni penalizzato per questo.)

    Mark of course with you is a simple explanation .. I just wanted to tell you that here could happen to anyone using the green, and driving the car may also appear slightly different because of the speed and viewpoint. . Mika's words are not correct with regard to the RSR. RSR's are correct and are always trying to find the right thing for everyone even though it is often very difficult. In fact, if the accident was not penalized melbourne mika, (not being a man of honor to throw out the first corner your opponent and then maybe a drive trought totally useless) just because you do not want to encourage a RSR.
    I am for the application of rules, in fact I request to be penalized.
    He should also ask him for having used the green several times t4, and have passed a car during a return to the pits and caused an accident (in formula one is penalized for this.)


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