Online Sim Racing netKar PRO


    interesting post by markus less than 7% of new users go online!!!

    Share

    paul thomas
    Driver
    Driver

    Posts : 269
    Join date : 2010-10-02
    Age : 49
    Location : wales

    interesting post by markus less than 7% of new users go online!!!

    Post by paul thomas on Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:05 am

    Can someone please translate this post by markus today over on DL

    Spero di cuore che questo intervento sia "letto" con lo spirito giusto.
    Vorrei il vostro parere su una questione importante, il 'peso' del
    multiplayer in una simulazione di guida come netKar PRO.

    PREMESSA1: l'intelligenza artificiale NON è prevista in netKar PRO

    PREMESSA2: questo non è un tentativo di auto giustificarsi riguardo a
    tutti gli aspetti del netcode di netKar PRO che sono migliorabili,
    perfettibili o sgraditi: uno su tutti, le collisioni, per intenderci; né
    di portare acqua al mio mulino.


    Fatta questa premessa, vi sottopongo un dato oggettivo: la risposta del
    pubblico alla nuova versione 1.3 Beta è stata ottima e non si sta
    esaurendo. L'atteggiamento e la positività che abbiamo registrato ci ha
    davvero colpito, ben più di quanto ci aspettassimo da questa release.
    Detto questo, stiamo stimando che meno del 7% dei NUOVI acquirenti di
    netKar PRO corre online: faccio riferimento ai nuovi perché è pacifico
    che chi abbia acquistato nKPro nel 2006 o anche 6 mesi o 1 anno fa, sia
    passato ad altro (ci sono titoli che ho atteso anni e ho riposto sullo
    scaffale dopo 3 settimane dall'acquisto).

    Meno del 6-7%, ovvero 1 simracer su 15-20, e mi riferisco al mese di
    febbraio in corso, se includessi anche il mese di gennaio la percentuale
    scenderebbe ulteriormente. Qui torniamo alla considerazione fatta in
    premessa: il netcode di netKar PRO è perfettibile o imperfetto se
    preferite: ma nell'ultima settimana di test 'pubblici' (sotto false
    generalità
    ) sono rimasto stupito rispetto ai risultati (in termini di stabilità
    ed efficenza) di pochi mesi fa. Oltretutto, come ho letto in un altro
    thread (e verificato in gara) la pioggia ha migliorato le partenze (LOL,
    sembra un assurdo) perché ha aumentato la soglia di prudenza più di
    qualsiasi raccomandazione. E questo ha reso le gare (sul bagnato,
    ari-LOL) più costruttive e divertenti, dando la possibilità di sfruttare
    meglio (o di più se preferite) il netcode.

    Quindi d'accordo: il netcode di netKar PRO non è quello della migliore
    concorrenza ("l'antagonista dello schieramento opposto", Veltroni docet,
    LOL), ovvero rFactor e iRacing. Ma non credo neanche si possa affermare
    "l'unico motivo per cui non corro online con netkar PRO è per il netcode".

    Neanche si può sostenere "non corro online perché preferisco la modalità
    carriera", o il "single player", perché in netKar PRO non è presente,
    come pure in iRacing, quindi la domanda che vi rivolgo è ancora più
    incisiva:

    in una simulazione di guida, oggettivamente, QUANTO è importante il
    multiplayer? Non date-MI-VI una risposta 'teorica', una risposta su
    "quello che in un sim di guida DEVE esserci", ma di cui -alla fine- vi
    interesserebbe poco, rispetto ad altre caratteristiche.

    Voi con iRacing, rFactor, GTR2, Live4Speed, netKar PRO: che rapporto c'è
    tra il tempo totale che gli dedicate, e il tempo totale in cui correte
    online? Io ad esempio con iRacing, quando acquisto una nuova auto o una
    pista, giro offline per un paio di giorni, fino a quando non raggiungo
    un "primo" limite con la vettura X sulla pista Y. Poi vado immediatamente online e ci resto
    finché non esaurisco l'interesse per quei contenuti (non partecipo mai
    ai campionati). Però con un prodotto come iRacing, non prescindo
    dall'essere presente online (anche per via del fatto che pago un
    abbonamento a prescindere dalla partecipazione sui server).

    Quindi, se in un solo weekend centinaia di nuovi arrivati acquistano
    netKar PRO (senza contare tutti coloro che possono usare online la demo
    gratuita!), mi aspetterei entro una settimana di vederne almeno la metà,
    o un terzo, affollare i server. Questo non accade. Non solo: ai nuovi
    si aggiungono tutti coloro che avendo già acquistato nKPro tempo fa,
    hanno esaurito le attivazioni e ne chiedono di nuove. E si tratta di
    centinaia di richieste in pochi giorni. Anche questi -che
    indubbiamente, se richiedono una nuova attivazione, significa che lo
    utilizzeranno- , online si vedono poco o nulla, non "fanno numero".

    Nei commenti ai blog, nelle mail che ci arrivano, non ci chiedono nuove
    auto, nuove piste (un multiplayer perfezionato sì, ma ci sta), ma
    ultimamente sembra che il comune denominatore sia uno: l'intelligenza
    artificiale...

    Ora, dedicare mesi di sviluppo per inserire l'intelligenza artificiale
    in progetto che quest'anno festeggia 5 primavere, non è purtroppo
    possibile. Però in vista dei piani di produzione futura avviati da
    tempo, ci troviamo a decidere come allocare le risorse, quali direzioni
    prendere. Ora, alla luce dei dati raccolti, se mi venite a dire
    "MULTIPLAYER! MULTIPLAYER!" vi spezzo la noce del capocollo (Lino Banfi docet ), ma seriamente: restando in tema di simulazione di guida 'hardcore' (iRacing, nKPro, rFactor ) nella vostra esperienza personale
    (lasciate da parte i campionati, che raggruppano poche centinaia di
    persone il cui numero aimé è ininfluente per guidare le scelte di design
    di una azienda che per sopravvivere deve fare profitto), QUANTO è importante il multiplayer? Ovvero, QUANTO lo sfruttereste?

    Per favore, non rispondetemi "TANTISSIMO" (vi rispezzo la noce del capocollo )
    solo perché pensate che se rispondete diversamente, noi metteremo da
    parte il multiplayer. NON è così, NON SARA' così. Ma in un contesto
    generale, che peso date al multiplayer nel valutare un'ipotesi di
    acquisto? (ammesso che li acquistate, ho visto un thread in questo che è
    il forum ufficiale di nKPro di chi chiedeva come riuscire a provare la
    TrentoBondone nella demo... )

    Ci fa piacere sentire il vostro pensiero al riguardo.

    Stiamo sempre parlando di concept simracing eh, non di Need for Speed..

    Andrea Lojelo
    ---
    ---

    Posts : 12576
    Join date : 2009-04-26
    Age : 38
    Location : Den Haag

    Re: interesting post by markus less than 7% of new users go online!!!

    Post by Andrea Lojelo on Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:16 am

    and now I'm curious to see how you are going to translate it!!


    _________________
     

    Martin Hussey
    Driver
    Driver

    Posts : 273
    Join date : 2010-08-06
    Age : 27

    Re: interesting post by markus less than 7% of new users go online!!!

    Post by Martin Hussey on Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:19 am

    If tracks were easier to find, i think more people would be able to race online. I've tried helping the situation with nkc, but it seems track developers turn straight to the next project, rather than promoting what they have. Theres only so much i can do on my own.

    Its all very well creating hundreds of beautiful tracks for people to race on. But your work is about as good as tits on a fish if nobody can find it. But hey, i've explained before Smile

    Another reason people wont stick with the game, is that they find it much harder than they expect. Theres no solution for this, without turning netkar into a game. (By 'game', i mean tons of driver aids like most "games" have)

    MikaRaymond
    Driver
    Driver

    Posts : 673
    Join date : 2010-11-16
    Age : 24
    Location : Blackburn, England

    Re: interesting post by markus less than 7% of new users go online!!!

    Post by MikaRaymond on Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:39 am

    im not suprised considering the first beta release was almost corrupt. now the CTD.exe seems to be fixed i bet that figure is more in the 40-50% region.

    lets not forget people have their favourite combos - personally mine is ks2 @ interlagos with 40% rain. the chances of me finding that exact combo online is almost nil.

    i wouldnt be too upset - these new champs should soon sort those figures out Wink

    Steve Crawnshaw
    Driver
    Driver

    Posts : 62
    Join date : 2011-01-02

    Re: interesting post by markus less than 7% of new users go online!!!

    Post by Steve Crawnshaw on Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:44 am

    netkar has horrible netcode. Fix it at least par with simbin titles and you'll see more online.

    I also think netkar is too hard for many sim racers. Just a couple of days ago there were a few guys crying that the vintage was too hard to drive.

    Fabio Grippa
    Driver
    Driver

    Posts : 233
    Join date : 2010-10-30
    Age : 32
    Location : Parma, Italy

    Re: interesting post by markus less than 7% of new users go online!!!

    Post by Fabio Grippa on Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:57 am

    Multiplayer is really important, no doubt about that, I haven't done more then 10 laps in one year off-line....So it is not clear to me why people don't came to multiplayer.
    I think somthing more should be done to promote online races, we have not a single reference as online race mangement, people who want to race doesn't know where to go playing online, there are too many rank system, too many confusion about race organization and so on.
    It should be an official NKpro website to manage the online server...and fantastic website as radiators-champ to organize championship and so on. For example some friend of mine who bought recently this sim, asked me where to find addiotional tracks (official track are just 5 or 6), where to go to know about race, ranking and so on...It was not clear also to me at the beggining 6 month ago...If there was not radiators-champ.com I would probably have been less interested in netkar...
    It is also strange that after you connect into an empety server, in 5 minutes people start joining it...it looks like people want to race but there is no oraganization in that...I hope you see what I mean

    Netcode problems are a big issue, but the quality of the sim, the veichle dynamic, veichle realism are topic in which netkar is really strong and nice...so, I'm for multiplayer, I'm not interested in any kind of artificial intelligence...this sim was born as a realistic and difficult sim, no way to make it simpler, I would delete it from my PC if it was also a little bit more arcade....
    Keep on netkar!!!

    Fernando Zart
    Driver
    Driver

    Posts : 94
    Join date : 2010-11-06
    Age : 48
    Location : Brasil

    Re: interesting post by markus less than 7% of new users go online!!!

    Post by Fernando Zart on Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:18 am

    Well, I live in Brazil, and since there are still few nkpro brazilian players, it's hard to find someone to play online at my country with full version.

    If I start a server, no one joins, because they are (mostly) at the other side of the globe, and the ping is high. So, I'm forced to go online and play with high ping times at their servers. This can be a serious downside for many players *(having local servers during free time, not only at 4AM), but then, there's no other solution than to buy the game and hope that others do the same.

    My preferred car is the FTarget. I like all the cars (starting to like the vintage a lot), but I prefer FTarget. No one else likes Ftarget. I like Road America track. No one else likes it (it NEVER appears on servers). Razz

    Nevertheless, I still play online on servers with 3 or more people, often with cars that I don't know so well (don't have setups for them), and on tracks that I don't know too (on several races I'm learning the track during the race... aware of my ping and striving to avoid causing havoc and ruining other's race).

    Of course this keeps me from being really competitive, but being constant rather than fast I've managed to even win some races, and a bunch of second/third places. It's fun, and the public that plays netkar is among the most "well-behaved" that I know in sim racing (trying to race like it was real life, not cutting the track, respecting others, etc).

    It is turning into a more known simulator... just give it some time, and thigs will start to change. I'm a believer! Smile


    Last edited by Fernando Zart on Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:20 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : cosmetic changes)

    akbar_sal
    Driver
    Driver

    Posts : 17
    Join date : 2011-02-20

    Re: interesting post by markus less than 7% of new users go online!!!

    Post by akbar_sal on Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:54 am

    my view is more or less "Please, please, pleasseeeeee fix the net code" or better yet rebuild it or make new code, since i'm starting to see that the netcode is flawed and there is no way to fix it (or very hard to).

    I think that if the collusion detection is the culprit, then can we have an option to make that detection less such as an option to multiply it less. so if it detects 20kmh, then if the multiply is 0.5 then it will be only 25kmh.

    if net code is better, i'm sure people will flocking in. my friend regularly play lfs, he bought netkar pro, and he say that it is better then lfs. he loves it, but never gone online, even if i ask to race me, just me and him, he usually refuse because of the netcode. to scared to pass because if its too close some time the netcode acting badly, and this thing is a hit and miss kind of stuff, you never know. those are the thing that i think frustrates people going online multiplayer.

    Steve Crawnshaw
    Driver
    Driver

    Posts : 62
    Join date : 2011-01-02

    Re: interesting post by markus less than 7% of new users go online!!!

    Post by Steve Crawnshaw on Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:41 pm

    I'm kind of surprised that people are even surprised about this...lol. I have NEVER been able to 'bump' someone in netkar because there is no such thing. Usually when the cars touch someone goes flying. The netcode is that bad. I'm not complaining but the question has been brought up. I've always thought that Kunos should sell some of his FFB and physics coding to a simbin or ISI. Kunos is just too small of a development team for netkar to go much further than it already has. Netkar is a great sim and I love it and I would recommend anybody to buy it if they are into racing sims but I will also tell them that the netcode is beyond bad, it's horrible.

    Albert McSaltens
    Driver
    Driver

    Posts : 638
    Join date : 2010-03-24
    Age : 37
    Location : Barcelona

    Re: interesting post by markus less than 7% of new users go online!!!

    Post by Albert McSaltens on Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:14 am

    at fernando yeah i love also road america and formula target but some people just cause it snaps form the back they dont drive it rather than fixing their setups and others say the ffb is weird, well i like it


    and for the multiplayer is a major thing that makes people abandone netkar it happened to me couple times cause of lag crahses ghost crashes and stuff like that.i wonder how much i will be able to stay playing netkar cause now i dont like the ks2 having too much grip. hope it will be revised for next patches :S

    M Carey
    Driver
    Driver

    Posts : 1076
    Join date : 2010-04-20

    Re: interesting post by markus less than 7% of new users go online!!!

    Post by M Carey on Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:50 am

    Steve Crawnshaw wrote:Usually when the cars touch someone goes flying. The netcode is that bad. I'm not complaining but the question has been brought up.
    Only since 1.2 it seemed to be a major problem (the contacts as the netcode has always been crap). I hate to say it for the millionth, but I did report this bug the day after 1.2 was released, and a couple of times after (after the 1.2 updates & 1.3 was released). The last time a member of the team seemed to take some notice. I really hope this is fixed. I find it annoying you seem to need a forensic report to prove a bug exists. When cars go flying into orbit it's obvious something's wrong, and as it was a new bug I don't see why it's that hard to fix.

    & Albert, with all the wonderful cars in nKPro, why are people going to drive the ugly duckling Razz

    MikaRaymond
    Driver
    Driver

    Posts : 673
    Join date : 2010-11-16
    Age : 24
    Location : Blackburn, England

    Re: interesting post by markus less than 7% of new users go online!!!

    Post by MikaRaymond on Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:31 pm

    actually, bumps and nudges are possible if the damage is set to 0% with slower cars such as the vintage and osella. me and GVRteam have had some pretty awesome races with the osella because we were able to bump and nudge without any problems. sure, if you hit them 20/30kmh faster theyll spin, but if youre racing side-by-side and accidentally touch there doesnt seem to be a problem.

    im sure kunos and his team are sick of hearing about netcode problems and theres no doubt in my mind he knows people arent happy with it so lets just see what improvements are made in future updates Smile

    Albert McSaltens
    Driver
    Driver

    Posts : 638
    Join date : 2010-03-24
    Age : 37
    Location : Barcelona

    Re: interesting post by markus less than 7% of new users go online!!!

    Post by Albert McSaltens on Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:50 pm

    6 years with this problem im sure people is more sick than kunos having the problem 6 years is more than enought to have fixed it or even completely introduce new netcode ! no excuses and sadly i dont see it being fixed in the future

    Sponsored content

    Re: interesting post by markus less than 7% of new users go online!!!

    Post by Sponsored content Today at 5:33 pm


      Current date/time is Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:33 pm