by wow Luca. Excellent lap (and looks valid to me). Your second split is amazing. -0.6 from your best. Excellent lines. You rock!!! 
+19
Gigi_Monticelli
giancarlo graziano
Luca Mosca
Antonio Lallo
alessio romagnoli
Claudio Gasperini
davide zardin
Vincent Buccarello
Fabio Grippa
MarcoLM
Leonardo Ratafia
Max Caputi
Danilo Biggio
f.gek
Luca Orsetti
mario gilles
Martin Slezak
M Waechter
Andrea Lojelo
23 posters
27 September 2012: Imola
Andrea Lojelo- ---
- Posts : 12576
Join date : 2009-04-26
Age : 45
Location : Den Haag
Andrea Lojelo- ---
- Posts : 12576
Join date : 2009-04-26
Age : 45
Location : Den Haag
quick translation: Marco is suggesting to have a practice server instead of a server with races for the PQ.MarcoLM wrote:Penso che prima di ogni evento ufficiale sia meglio istituire un server di "Practice" con tempo illmitato piuttosto che uno con solo pochi minuti di qualifica seguito da 2 gare!Spesso questi server sono tra l'altro gestiti da amministratori che riavviano le gare saltando direttamente la qualifica e non è sempre facile trovare un buon tempo in mezzo al traffico!
E' sicuramente importante confrontarsi con gli avversari.......(per prendere le misure), ma non sarebbe meglio istituire un server con le gare solo due/tre giorni prima dell'evento ufficiale?
Cosa ne pensate?
My personal preference would be to keep it the way it is, since I strongly believe that we don't need hotlappers for our championship but people that are aware of how to be on track together with others. Even more important at few days from the event.
Said that, technically we don't have any problems to run 2 servers in different configurations (practice only and qual+race), although, this would mean to slit the drivers in groups and having less people on each track.
You can have very fast laps in the race as well. Luca's best lap(the one of the video) was on his 4th lap of a race we did yesterday.
You can definitely improve your lap time even during the race. If you are afraid of having traffic ahead, just back off, or start from the pits and you'll have free space in front of you.
At the end prequalifications are just meant to split the groups between drivers with similar laptimes. To be in Group A a 2.02.XXX is needed at the moment.
Martin Slezak- Driver
- Posts : 33
Join date : 2011-12-26
Age : 39
Location : Nachod
Thank you very much Luca! I realize that I brake later than you, but you are still far far faster. I will try to brake earlier and dont overdrive the car.
Regarding to Acqua Mineralli I will do it also that way, all 4 wheels on the green extensions on the 4th gear. Only if I touch the grey concret I will then lift off. With that steep hill afterwards it is so much slower having drive only to the outside curb.
imho it is better to have race server. It is more funny and you can learn from other drivers. Everyone can do neverending training sesion offline :-)) Few laps behind Andrea I learn more than in 100laps alone. He cut off 2s of my previous best.
Regarding to Acqua Mineralli I will do it also that way, all 4 wheels on the green extensions on the 4th gear. Only if I touch the grey concret I will then lift off. With that steep hill afterwards it is so much slower having drive only to the outside curb.
imho it is better to have race server. It is more funny and you can learn from other drivers. Everyone can do neverending training sesion offline :-)) Few laps behind Andrea I learn more than in 100laps alone. He cut off 2s of my previous best.
Luca Orsetti- Driver
- Posts : 162
Join date : 2010-05-04
Age : 34
Location : Catanzaro
Martin Slezak wrote:
Regarding to Acqua Mineralli I will do it also that way, all 4 wheels on the green extensions on the 4th gear.
Well, normally I always go with only two wheels on the green extension. Paradoxically, then I did a mistake on that lap!
Andrea Lojelo- ---
- Posts : 12576
Join date : 2009-04-26
Age : 45
Location : Den Haag
VERY IMPORTANT!!! Please allocate for the race. If you are not in the the entry list you can't race.
Andrea Lojelo wrote:Here is the entry list for the event.
Group A: positions from 1 to 15
Group B: positions from 16 to 30
Remember that you need to be allocated to be part of the event, and you need to do some lap on our server. You check who is online and other drivers lap times on the Live Timing.
Please help us out placing your allocation for the race in time, so that we can organize the race properly, setting up the servers in advance and we will not lose time during the briefing. Thanks for your help.
Leonardo Ratafia- Driver
- Posts : 244
Join date : 2010-04-18
Age : 46
Location : Montevideo - Uruguay
i think Luca should race with ballast 
that time is with the g27? H shifter?
that time is with the g27? H shifter?
Andrea Lojelo- ---
- Posts : 12576
Join date : 2009-04-26
Age : 45
Location : Den Haag
I repeat this post on this page as well, so that anyone can read it.
VERY IMPORTANT!!! Please allocate for the race. If you are not in the the entry list you can't race.
VERY IMPORTANT!!! Please allocate for the race. If you are not in the the entry list you can't race.
Andrea Lojelo wrote:Here is the entry list for the event.
Group A: positions from 1 to 15
Group B: positions from 16 to 30
Remember that you need to be allocated to be part of the event, and you need to do some lap on our server. You check who is online and other drivers lap times on the Live Timing.
Please help us out placing your allocation for the race in time, so that we can organize the race properly, setting up the servers in advance and we will not lose time during the briefing. Thanks for your help.
Fabio Grippa- Driver
- Posts : 233
Join date : 2010-10-30
Age : 40
Location : Parma, Italy
Hi all,
I want to share my doubt about the abarth 500 behavior: there is something really strange, which is against the normal vehicle dynamic:
1. Entering a turn without the throttle the car shows a quite big understeer, which is quite normal, nothing really strange here (I think it should be less having all the weight over the front whell axis). The wrong things come when you open the throttle, the car should go wider showing a greater understeer, being a front wheel car. But it happens the opposite, the car "close the turn", it reduce the oversteer a lot, which is at least strange, if not completely wrong...
2. The maximum lateral deceleration should be reached before the tires saturation phase...the tires give you the maximum lateral acceleration with a quite small angle (called "slip angle", should be around 6-8° for a car like this, if I'm not wrong;)it means if you turn too much the steering wheel, the lateral acceleration decrease...you can feel the saturation phase by the force on your steering wheel, when it start to decrease it means you are starting to have too much slip, and the lateral deceleration decrease....with this car you can get the maximum lateral deceleration with a huge steering wheel angle, and then with a huge slip angle, which is again strange...
What I feel is a completely wrong dynamic model on this car, which led you to drive a car like it is almost a rear wheel drive, and with irrealistic steering wheel angle....
Do you have my same feeling, or it is just my impression?
Thanks for your comment, greetings from Italy!
I want to share my doubt about the abarth 500 behavior: there is something really strange, which is against the normal vehicle dynamic:
1. Entering a turn without the throttle the car shows a quite big understeer, which is quite normal, nothing really strange here (I think it should be less having all the weight over the front whell axis). The wrong things come when you open the throttle, the car should go wider showing a greater understeer, being a front wheel car. But it happens the opposite, the car "close the turn", it reduce the oversteer a lot, which is at least strange, if not completely wrong...
2. The maximum lateral deceleration should be reached before the tires saturation phase...the tires give you the maximum lateral acceleration with a quite small angle (called "slip angle", should be around 6-8° for a car like this, if I'm not wrong;)it means if you turn too much the steering wheel, the lateral acceleration decrease...you can feel the saturation phase by the force on your steering wheel, when it start to decrease it means you are starting to have too much slip, and the lateral deceleration decrease....with this car you can get the maximum lateral deceleration with a huge steering wheel angle, and then with a huge slip angle, which is again strange...
What I feel is a completely wrong dynamic model on this car, which led you to drive a car like it is almost a rear wheel drive, and with irrealistic steering wheel angle....
Do you have my same feeling, or it is just my impression?
Thanks for your comment, greetings from Italy!
Luca Orsetti- Driver
- Posts : 162
Join date : 2010-05-04
Age : 34
Location : Catanzaro
Yeah, I have a G27 from almost a yearLeonardo Ratafia wrote:that time is with the g27? H shifter?
Fabio Grippa wrote:Hi all,
I want to share my doubt about the abarth 500 behavior: there is something really strange, which is against the normal vehicle dynamic:
1. Entering a turn without the throttle the car shows a quite big understeer, which is quite normal, nothing really strange here (I think it should be less having all the weight over the front whell axis). The wrong things come when you open the throttle, the car should go wider showing a greater understeer, being a front wheel car. But it happens the opposite, the car "close the turn", it reduce the oversteer a lot, which is at least strange, if not completely wrong...
2. The maximum lateral deceleration should be reached before the tires saturation phase...the tires give you the maximum lateral acceleration with a quite small angle (called "slip angle", should be around 6-8° for a car like this, if I'm not wrong;)it means if you turn too much the steering wheel, the lateral acceleration decrease...you can feel the saturation phase by the force on your steering wheel, when it start to decrease it means you are starting to have too much slip, and the lateral deceleration decrease....with this car you can get the maximum lateral deceleration with a huge steering wheel angle, and then with a huge slip angle, which is again strange...
What I feel is a completely wrong dynamic model on this car, which led you to drive a car like it is almost a rear wheel drive, and with irrealistic steering wheel angle....
Do you have my same feeling, or it is just my impression?
Thanks for your comment, greetings from Italy!
Ciao Fabio. Ti rispondo in italiano perchè in inglese non ne sono capace
.Riguardo il punto 1, io sento quasi il contrario di quello che dici tu :s. Se entro in curva senza accelerare il posteriore si alleggerisce e viene fuori una specie di mix di sovrasterzo e sottosterzo, ma quello che subisco di più è il primo. Quando apro l'acceleratore invece, l'auto tende decisamente ad allargare e il sottosterzo si fa sentire, infatti c'è parecchio da dosare per fare una curva pulita.
Sul punto 2 sinceramente non so cosa dire, non me ne intendo molto
.
M Waechter- Driver
- Posts : 755
Join date : 2010-08-16
Location : Germany
Fabio Grippa wrote:...when you open the throttle, the car should go wider showing a greater understeer, being a front wheel car. But it happens the opposite, the car "close the turn", it reduce the oversteer a lot, ..
Just my logical, simple thought about this: Even (also) with a front wheel powered car the car's weight goes a bit to the rear -the car lifts up at the front- when you accelerate (like with my own real car), because of the 'centrifugal forces'.. and then the less of weight on the front axis on acceleration leads to more understeer.
Martin Slezak- Driver
- Posts : 33
Join date : 2011-12-26
Age : 39
Location : Nachod
M Waechter wrote:Fabio Grippa wrote:...when you open the throttle, the car should go wider showing a greater understeer, being a front wheel car. But it happens the opposite, the car "close the turn", it reduce the oversteer a lot, ..
Just my logical, simple thought about this: Even (also) with a front wheel powered car the car's weight goes a bit to the rear -the car lifts up at the front- when you accelerate (like with my own real car), because of the 'centrifugal forces'.. and then the less of weight on the front axis on acceleration leads to more understeer.
I am sorry I cann't understand your comment. My thoughts according to real life FIAT 500 (of cours not Abarth :-)) are as follows. When you add throttle in the middle of the corner the weight goes backward and the car starts to understeer and if you go full gas front wheel starts to spin - making the understeer even more pronaunced. Here (in theory)self-locking differentionl would 100% help. At this point you can brake a little to transfer the weight to the front wheels and to lock the differential to help with a tracktion.
But I confirm that in LFS this is the samo. In the FWD car full throttle tightens a corner.
Fabio Grippa- Driver
- Posts : 233
Join date : 2010-10-30
Age : 40
Location : Parma, Italy
Dear Martin and Marco, we are all saying the same thing...the car should go wider and wider when accelerating while turning, like it happens every days with a normal front wheel car real driving (mainly due to the fact that the front wheel are saturated in transmitting lateral force, and they can't transmit any longitudinal force anymore, then they spin and the car goes straight, like it happen when locking the front tires while turning)...The only problem is that I feel a opposite behavior with the nkpro abarth 500, and the self-locking differential can't change a lot this behavior...It is mainly clear at the "U" turn at Imola...Maybe is just my feeling...
M Waechter- Driver
- Posts : 755
Join date : 2010-08-16
Location : Germany
@Martin: That's exactly like what I was saying -understeering on throttle = normal- (we all say the same, like Fabio already mentioned.. 
), you must have had misunderstood s.th. there.
), you must have had misunderstood s.th. there.
Andrea Lojelo- ---
- Posts : 12576
Join date : 2009-04-26
Age : 45
Location : Den Haag
guys, we will close the SkinPack tonight. If you want to have a custom skin, please upload ithere
Max Caputi- Driver
- Posts : 197
Join date : 2011-11-23
Location : Padova
Ragazzi mi è venuto un fortissimo dubbio sulla ripartizione di frenata della 500 Abarth...non vorrei che per assurdo funzionasse al contrario.
Il Brake Bias dovrebbe essere la ripartizione di frenata e quindi - sul posteriore e + sull'anteriore ma sembra quasi che ripartendo la frenata con una percentuale più bassa e quindi più sul posteriore sia più stabile in frenata. Ho fatto varie prove, forse troppe, e non ci capisco più nulla !!
Qualcuno ha notato questa cosa?
Il Brake Bias dovrebbe essere la ripartizione di frenata e quindi - sul posteriore e + sull'anteriore ma sembra quasi che ripartendo la frenata con una percentuale più bassa e quindi più sul posteriore sia più stabile in frenata. Ho fatto varie prove, forse troppe, e non ci capisco più nulla !!
Qualcuno ha notato questa cosa?
Andrea Lojelo- ---
- Posts : 12576
Join date : 2009-04-26
Age : 45
Location : Den Haag
Si, i tasti nella configurazione di nk sono invertiti. Tanto ti esce la percentuale a video.
Max Caputi- Driver
- Posts : 197
Join date : 2011-11-23
Location : Padova
Andrea Lojelo wrote:Si, i tasti nella configurazione di nk sono invertiti. Tanto ti esce la percentuale a video.
Questo lo so e li ho già modificati manualmente nel controller ma io ho proprio avuto la sensazione ( a differenza di tutte le altre vetture di netkar )che una percentuale più bassa, e quindi frenata più sul posteriore, la vettura perda meno il posteriore in frenata come se fosse in realtà ripartita sull'anteriore...non so se mi sono spiegato
In pratica per ovviare alla perdita, eccessiva secondo me, del posteriore in staccata oltre ovviamente a lavorare molto di gas avevo messo percentuale 95-96 ( e cioè più avanti ) ma poi abbassando anche di molto la percentuale mi è venuto un forte dubbio perchè incredibilmente la vettura mi è sembrata più stabile, cosa strana ripartendo la frenata più indietro. Salvo che non mi stai clamorosamente sbagliando io sul significato di quella percentuale...
Fabio Grippa- Driver
- Posts : 233
Join date : 2010-10-30
Age : 40
Location : Parma, Italy
Max....secondo me questa vettura e' tutta sbagliata...non mi torna nulla del comportamento, boh...faro' delle prove come dici sulla frenata ma non mi stupirebbe nulla... :-)
Fabio Grippa- Driver
- Posts : 233
Join date : 2010-10-30
Age : 40
Location : Parma, Italy
In realta' Max mettendo il bias piu' basso la ripartizione va correttamente piu' sul posteriore, al punto di bloccare le ruote dietro per prime...
Certo è che abbassasndo un po' il valore non perdi in stabilita', forse perche' trasferisci meno peso all'anteriore e alleggerisci meno dietro...nella realta' non succedera' mai cosi ma ripeto, il modello dinamico di questa auto non mi convince...
Certo è che abbassasndo un po' il valore non perdi in stabilita', forse perche' trasferisci meno peso all'anteriore e alleggerisci meno dietro...nella realta' non succedera' mai cosi ma ripeto, il modello dinamico di questa auto non mi convince...
M Waechter- Driver
- Posts : 755
Join date : 2010-08-16
Location : Germany
PQ server seems to be down.
Vincent Buccarello- Driver
- Posts : 122
Join date : 2012-08-13
Andrea Lojelo wrote:To be in Group A a 2.02.XXX is needed at the moment.
Why is 2.02.XXX needed ? I thought 1-15 are in Group A, since I am 6th with 2.03.XXX I hope I will race in Group A
I had no time yet to do a better time and today the server is down
M Waechter- Driver
- Posts : 755
Join date : 2010-08-16
Location : Germany
Hmm, how could M Carey join the server a few minutes ago, when it's not there [he was on track a few minutes ago, but the server is still down] -ghost driver.. ?
?
Andrea Lojelo- ---
- Posts : 12576
Join date : 2009-04-26
Age : 45
Location : Den Haag
The server is online and there are people running at the moment.
M Waechter- Driver
- Posts : 755
Join date : 2010-08-16
Location : Germany
Ok, I could have sworn it was still down while Marius was on track, will try to improve my laptime during a few laps.
Andrea Lojelo- ---
- Posts : 12576
Join date : 2009-04-26
Age : 45
Location : Den Haag
Here is the Abarth Series 2012 Skin Pack Version:1.0
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