RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

by Marco Calesella Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:06 pm

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Post n°251

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Post by Marco Calesella Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:06 pm

Max Caputi wrote:L'ho riprovata con qualche piccola modifica al setup di default su altri circuiti, che non ne esasperano i difetti come il Mugello, da me scelto volutamente per il primo test. Devo dire che il sottosterzo si avverte meno e che pur dovendo sempre correggere molto la guida sembra un po' più accettabile rispetto alla mia primissima valutazione. Mi interessava vederne il comportamento in circuiti tipo Valencia e pensavo peggio... L'inserimento nelle curve è buono.

Sembra che la mia esperienza segua di pari passo quella di Max. Anch'io estremamente migliorato dopo alcuni accorgimenti sul setup, anche se continua a far "sudare alle mani" in staccata con un equilibrio che, seppur miglioratissimo, appare piuttosto instabile (sembra sempre lì come un lampadario attaccato al pavimento invece che uno appeso al soffitto! Smile

).
Io ho ancora difficoltà sui curvoni veloci (tipo quello a SX a circa metà percorso di Prato) dove mi sembra di dover usare una circospezione esagerata tanto da sembrare piantato (ho visto comunque che anche altri sono nelle mie condizioni) e quando parte a riprenderla perchè faccio molta fatica ad evitare la scodata a pendolo in senso opposto quando riprende aderenza, cosa che sinceramente non mi aspetterei da gomme stradali.

bene bene comunque, una sfida....

Piuttosto un problemino grafico che non so se dipende dalla mia conf. (Ati H5870 ultimi driver per Win7 64 e niente di particolare).
Casomai stasera se riesco posto uno screen, ma intanto anticipo. Skin gialla (o comunque chiara) su certe piste (ad esempio Bondone, ma anche A1Ring, mentre Prato e Newbury mi sembrano OK) la carrozeria risulta ombreggiata diffusa nera, proprio come se la luminosità diffuse fosse di quel colore. E' strano perchè le altre macchine non mi danno quell'effetto. Bohhhh, se qualcuno ha qualche idea.

by Max Caputi Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:18 pm

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Post n°252

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Post by Max Caputi Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:18 pm

Marco Calesella wrote:

Max Caputi wrote:L'ho riprovata con qualche piccola modifica al setup di default su altri circuiti, che non ne esasperano i difetti come il Mugello, da me scelto volutamente per il primo test. Devo dire che il sottosterzo si avverte meno e che pur dovendo sempre correggere molto la guida sembra un po' più accettabile rispetto alla mia primissima valutazione. Mi interessava vederne il comportamento in circuiti tipo Valencia e pensavo peggio... L'inserimento nelle curve è buono.

Sembra che la mia esperienza segua di pari passo quella di Max. Anch'io estremamente migliorato dopo alcuni accorgimenti sul setup, anche se continua a far "sudare alle mani" in staccata con un equilibrio che, seppur miglioratissimo, appare piuttosto instabile (sembra sempre lì come un lampadario attaccato al pavimento invece che uno appeso al soffitto! ).
Io ho ancora difficoltà sui curvoni veloci (tipo quello a SX a circa metà percorso di Prato) dove mi sembra di dover usare una circospezione esagerata tanto da sembrare piantato (ho visto comunque che anche altri sono nelle mie condizioni) e quando parte a riprenderla perchè faccio molta fatica ad evitare la scodata a pendolo in senso opposto quando riprende aderenza, cosa che sinceramente non mi aspetterei da gomme stradali.

bene bene comunque, una sfida....

Guarda io l'ho appena provata a Prato ed ho addirittura ritrovato qualcosa che mi ha ricordato la 458, e devo obiettivamente dire che il sovrasterzo di potenza si controlla bene in accelerazione ed anche le correzioni in controsterzo le trovo simulative, considerando soprattutto che il controsterzo è la nota negativa di molti simulatori ( nel senso che una volta che ti parte non la riprendi più ). Anche le staccate e le frenate se la vettura è dritta si possono fare molto decisi. Pertanto io rivedo in parte il mio giudizio... fermo restando che bisogna adattarsi un po' ai comportamenti della vettura che in alcune circostanze restano non particolarmente simulativi, però una volta capito come guidarla ci si diverte.

A breve video di un paio di giri a Prato...

by Leonardo Ratafia Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:20 pm

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Post n°253

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Post by Leonardo Ratafia Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:20 pm

hi all, so far the few laps i did in the lambo, i don´t like it...
i don´t like the ABS toggle on/off, since i don´t think it´s an option you can really switch on and off like TC or others electronic helps in a real car.
i will have to test it a little bit more, it´s not easy to drive, not driven to the extreme, but in slow corners aswell.
and the shaders of the windshield as someone already said should be fixed soon.
anyways it´s a great addition to netkar pro and I really thank you all guys for doing it!

by **Andrea Lojelo** Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:29 pm

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Post n°254

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Post by Andrea Lojelo Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:29 pm

Maarten mentioned that sometimes he drove it on track with the ABS switched OFF. I don't know exactly for which reason, but he said he had a lot of fun with it, because it was much trickier to brake (obviously). Maybe he can tell us more about it, but it's definitely possible. I doubt that you can do it pressing a button like for the TC, but for sure his mechanics can do it easily.
From the other side, in nk there is the possibility to have or not the ABS/TC, and it is always possible to enable/disable them with a key. You can't force it to be on/off.
Riccardo Azzoli also confirmed that the ABS works pretty well in the real car, and it was very happy on the way it's implemented in our virtual counterpart.

by Max Caputi Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:43 pm

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Post n°255

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Post by Max Caputi Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:43 pm

by **Andrea Lojelo** Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:48 pm

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Post n°256

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Post by Andrea Lojelo Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:48 pm

beh dai...un "...not so bad" da te e' quasi un complimento. Sono commosso! Spero di vederti nel nostro campionato Max. Grazie per il video.

by Gianluca Bonifacio Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:52 pm

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Post n°257

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Post by Gianluca Bonifacio Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:52 pm

Andrea Lojelo wrote: I doubt that you can do it pressing a button like for the TC, but for sure his mechanics can do it easily

RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO - Page 11 Fusibile-300x174

by Vaggelis Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:57 pm

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Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Post by Vaggelis Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:57 pm

Some things that i noticed are:
first i think the weight transfer on braking comes very fast to front even if i putted max rear slow rebound and max front slow bump,i keep loosing the rear,which makes it frustrating and cant drive it on limit.
Also when braking and turning same time(even just a little bit)cause to loose the rear,seems its very responsive to the wheel.
Also i found that in general is very responsive to the wheel making me feel that i need higher steer ratio.It allows me only 1 more to put for steer ratio.
Also i noticed that maybe it has very much suspension travel? Dunno,like another guy posted its reminds a little bit the high travels of vintage.

Im not an expert,i dont know how is the real lampo so maybe im completly wrong.What do u guys think?

PS:as i said before thank u again for ur work,no doubt about that,are just my comments on driving expierence.

by Marco Calesella Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:59 pm

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Post n°259

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Post by Marco Calesella Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:59 pm

Max Caputi wrote:Guarda io l'ho appena provata a Prato ed ho addirittura ritrovato qualcosa che mi ha ricordato la 458, e devo obiettivamente dire che il sovrasterzo di potenza si controlla bene in accelerazione ed anche le correzioni in controsterzo le trovo simulative, considerando soprattutto che il controsterzo è la nota negativa di molti simulatori ( nel senso che una volta che ti parte non la riprendi più ). Anche le staccate e le frenate se la vettura è dritta si possono fare molto decisi. Pertanto io rivedo in parte il mio giudizio... fermo restando che bisogna adattarsi un po' ai comportamenti della vettura che in alcune circostanze restano non particolarmente simulativi, però una volta capito come guidarla ci si diverte.

A breve video di un paio di giri a Prato...

Confermo al 100%.
Controsterzo e sottosterzo "di potenza" non erano tanto il mio probelma, quelli ero riuscito già a "gestirli" ed addirittura a goderli interperetando come già la 458 con la tecnica che anche Aris aveva consigliato a suo tempo. A me sconcertava l'effetto "barcone" e la lentezza ed inerzia (alla Vintage) nei trasferimenti di carico.
Verissimo che a macchina dritta puoi frenare duro (tenendo conto che frena meno delle altre in proprozione alla velocità che raggiunge), ma guai a spostarti di un'attimo. Per quello parlavo di lamapdario (o asta se preferisci) piantato nel pavimento e non appeso, come un esempio di instabilità a carico di punta. Ti sposti un pelo dall'asse e collassa tutto! Smile

)
Sono onesto comuqnue nel dire che per il momento non mi sento assolutamente a mio agio, ma perlomeno adesso è più o meno come le prime volte che ho preso in mano la 1800 o la FTarget che dopo un po' di tempo sono riuscito ad apprezzare appieno (mentre l'Osella, pur rimanendo cronicamente lento Sad

, me la sono sentita "cucita" addosso subito a livelo di sensazioni. Forse anche eprchè avevo già in mano al Target). Adesso comunque c'è la motivazione ad insistere Smile

anche se dubito che per l'A1Ring sarò pronto. Sad

by Gianluca Bonifacio Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:25 pm

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Post n°260

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Post by Gianluca Bonifacio Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:25 pm

Vaggelis Theodoridis wrote:Some things that i noticed are:
first i think the weight transfer on braking comes very fast to front even if i putted max rear slow rebound and max front slow bump,i keep loosing the rear,which makes it frustrating and cant drive it on limit.
Also when braking and turning same time(even just a little bit)cause to loose the rear,seems its very responsive to the wheel.
Also i found that in general is very responsive to the wheel making me feel that i need higher steer ratio.It allows me only 1 more to put for steer ratio.
Also i noticed that maybe it has very much suspension travel? Dunno,like another guy posted its reminds a little bit the high travels of vintage.

Im not an expert,i dont know how is the real lampo so maybe im completly wrong.What do u guys think?

PS:as i said before thank u again for ur work,no doubt about that,are just my comments on driving expierence.

if i remember correctly, when braking the front dampers should compress about 4 cm .. a value quite normal for a car of this type... to take away any doubt, you can check the telemetry...

by **Andrea Lojelo** Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:36 pm

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Post n°261

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Post by Andrea Lojelo Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:36 pm

or otherwise you can do some math with me:
This is a comment I had few months back on the beta testing forum when I was calculating the antidive/antisquat Smile

I can show you the excel file I created too, but it's all in Italian, so you can get a bit lost study

As you can see my approach on things has been pretty much driven by my engineering background...

Basically all this complex geometric contruction was to calculate 2 single parameters, using sin/cos/atan of all the angles you see over there.

Andrea Lojelo wrote:this is what I've been busy with last night:

antisquat and antidive for front and rear suspension.

and here a zoom on the more complex geometic construction to get to the antisquat/antidive angles values of the rear suspension.
Small note: it's not on scale on the x axis to see better the angles, that would be, otherwise too narrow to analyze.

by Vaggelis Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:51 pm

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Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Post by Vaggelis Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:51 pm

i dont understand anything ::idea2::

U seem to know a lot better than me so no problem,i just said my expierence.
I dont have any doubt that u putted as much as u could real data into the mod BUT there is another parameter.For example:in iracing i remember many fights in theyr forums about the new tyre model(well friends of mine told me).iRacing was saying it is real data but on the other hand members were saying that is undrivable etc etc.
I suppose real data is very important but if there is something else that makes the final result behaving diferent from what u expected from putting the real data?
I mean that in the telemetry the mod bumps 4 mm as Boni said and as u say this is real but maybe something else is missing that making the rear looses grip.Or maybe the physics doesnt allow it,i really,really dont know Very Happy

About steer ratio is it possible to let some more values?

by **Andrea Lojelo** Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:58 pm

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Post n°263

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Post by Andrea Lojelo Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:58 pm

the real steer ratio for this car is 12, if I'm not misteken. In the setup, just to be a bit flexible and allow you to adjust it to your feel, we decided to have -1 +1.
If the steer feels too direct, reconfigure your steering wheel in nk. it shoud be 900' in the logitech profiler, if you have a g25/g27, and CONTROLLER>ADVANCED>DEVICE LOCK = 900 on the gui for the configuration in nk

by Marco Calesella Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:37 pm

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Post n°264

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Post by Marco Calesella Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:37 pm

Vaggelis Theodoridis wrote:....I suppose real data is very important but if there is something else that makes the final result behaving diferent from what u expected from putting the real data?.....

You hit a point of general discussion on simualtors.
Generally speaking (so really not referring specifically to the Gallardo) there is always been a big discussion if it's better to have real data in a simulator or fake data that result in realistic behavior (I remember a big discussion on GSMF Carrera Cup Mod on rFactor, many modders accused GSMF to have modeled tehir Porshe like a forward engine car... nevertheless it was quite close to the real counterpart, speaking of SIM experience!)

The best simulator should be the one that allow you to put real data and cosequentely have real behaviour. Unfortunately this is not so easy (and propbably not possible) to code a program like this to do everything in realtime, so at the moment it's stiil a dream.
The best simulator EXPERIENCE is the one that, even if using "fake" (or best, let's say ADAPTED) data to overcome the limitation of the code compared to the real world is nevertheless able to give you a credible representation of how things should work.

At the end of the day I don't care if the real behavior in a simulation is due or not to real or fake data. The important thing should be the feeling "to be there"

Having said that, I think that netkar have one of the more complex implementation of physics, so that probably real data works here "quite well". Wink

by Jorge Alves Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:42 pm

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Post n°265

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Post by Jorge Alves Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:42 pm

Im a bit confused now:scratch:

how can i turn on/off abs and tc ?

are there any keys for it or must i clik somewhere?

by **Andrea Lojelo** Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:53 pm

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Post n°266

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Post by Andrea Lojelo Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:53 pm

Jorge Alves wrote:Im a bit confused now:scratch:

how can i turn on/off abs and tc ?

are there any keys for it or must i clik somewhere?

ABS on/off: press Q
TCS: it's always off. We didn't like the way it was working.

by Jorge Alves Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:23 pm

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Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Post by Jorge Alves Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:23 pm

Thanks!

I just made some laps without ABS and i liked ... more difficult and slower of course ... but i felt more challenge and fun ... the driving feels somehow more realistic

Its good you allow it to be turned off RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO - Page 11 361709

RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO - Page 11 361709

by **Andrea Lojelo** Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:27 pm

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Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Post by Andrea Lojelo Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:27 pm

Marco Calesella wrote:

Vaggelis Theodoridis wrote:....I suppose real data is very important but if there is something else that makes the final result behaving diferent from what u expected from putting the real data?.....

...
The best simulator should be the one that allow you to put real data and cosequentely have real behaviour. Unfortunately this is not so easy (and propbably not possible) to code a program like this to do everything in realtime, so at the moment it's stiil a dream.

...

Having said that, I think that netkar have one of the more complex implementation of physics, so that probably real data works here "quite well".

One thing I really loved about our those months I spent studying and experimenting with physics was the incredible precision on how nk physics engine was reacting to my changes on the parameters.
My approach has been always the same: study a lot to understand all the different sections of the car, and get mathematical formulas from everything I could.
Once I had my data and formulas I was calculating what to expect. Then I was putting things in our editor, and test it on track getting telemetry and drivers feedbacks.

I was shocked to get always in the sim, values that are pretty close to the real (if not identical).
As I said in the release notes,

Studying the way it works under the bonnet, trying to create a realistic physics for our car, we appreciated even more the great work he did.
The physics engine is reacting with incredible precision to any little change of a parameter.

The great thing was also, that since the physics is working so well, it's a great tool to understand if you are doing something wrong.
A good example could be the aerodynamics. At the beginning of our beta testing I did a mistake misinterpreting some real life values I got.
I just had partial information at that time, and since those things were completely new to me, I couldn't understand why I wasn't getting exactly the right values on the telemetry.
Some of the testers gave me some good feedbacks, insisting that, in their view, there was a problem on the aero.
I spent one more month before I understood the issue, finding some more data from a wind tunnel test and studying better the problem.
The great thing is that now, data matched really closely the values I expect on my mathematical model.
As soon as myself and the other testers tried it out, it was immediately clear that we found the solution for that!

In the last month as been like this every single day. The more real data I found, and input in the car physics, the more the car was getting drivable and having a more realistic behaviour.

Kudos to Kunos for this great physic engine. I've been really shocked on how good it is. I was never expecting it to be so close to reality.

Of course there are limitations and things that simplify the physics in some circonstances, but I've to say, from what I've learnt analysing the physics, he really choose carefully when simplify and when not.

I couldn't agree more on what Aris said about AC:

Aris wrote:

physics engine rule n.1: Do not try "tricks" from old experiences on your tires. They will bite you back.
physics engine rule n.2: Treat your suspension geometry with respect. millimeter by millimeter...
physics engine rule n.3: No matter the car, if it's hard to keep it on the road, you're doing it wrong.

I'm really looking forward to do the new physics for the Gallardo in AC, where the physics engine should be even better, and, finally, we will have a proper official editor! I'm really curious to see it!

by Jorge Alves Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:48 pm

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Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Post by Jorge Alves Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:48 pm

I dont know anything about physics and i never drove a real racing car ... but all this sounds very interesting ... its nice to know you try by all means make the car looks as real as possible.

Did you or your testers experimented the real car or you just based yourself in all this formulas and telemetry data?

by **Andrea Lojelo** Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:54 pm

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Post n°270

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Post by Andrea Lojelo Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:54 pm

We had 2 real guys that drove a lamborghini Gallardo on track, and some technical guys too giving me some good tips.

by Marco Calesella Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:59 pm

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Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Post by Marco Calesella Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:59 pm

Yes Andrea, even if on a smaller proportion, I had the same feeling modeling some (at the moment unfinished unfortunately due to lack of time) tracks for netkar.
During my tests it was clear there was not a fake layer between the model on wich you were driving and the car behavior.

I'm also looking forward to see AC and its model tools. I read a very sad news on AC, i.e. that FFord 1800 will be no more in.
Since it's one of the car (probably THE car) that I enjoy more in netKar, I hope to be able (or that some good modder will be able) to convert to AC.
I think that when it'll be the moment I'll try to "corrupt" Kunos to give me the clue to be able to convert it!!!! I'll eventually ask to collaborate with you RSR, if you'll be interested. Smile

By the way my tracks I mentioned before (mainly the hillclimb) are again on my schedule even if very slowly proceeding, with a new target now, possibly..... test in netkar to be available on AC.... Hopefully!

by M Waechter Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:22 pm

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Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Post by M Waechter Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:22 pm

Vaggelis Theodoridis wrote:Also when braking and turning same time(even just a little bit)cause to loose the rear,seems its very responsive to the wheel.
Also i found that in general is very responsive to the wheel making me feel that i need higher steer ratio.It allows me only 1 more to put for steer ratio.

I improved handling and was 'healed' by unexpected lose of the rear by just developing the right suspension settings. Like with all other cars it is very important for me to have quite perfect suspension values. The general kind of suspension + preload contribution looks nearly the same like I use at all other cars: rear+front slow rebound a little higher than the rest of the values.. (and especially too high slow-bump values make the cars instable/sliding/having less grip inside corners) and for the Gvb try out low fast-bump values for the front in relation to the other values.
Lower fast bump at front makes this street-car less nervous when turning in, driving through corners and delivers more grip at corner entrances, so that you can hold (keep) better lines. Hope I reveal not too much of 'my susp. setup' Wink

.
The toe and camber is improtant too, even if you can't change them much here it changes the bahaviour clearly, just think logical which camber choice delivers most tire-grip and which toe values makes the car the less understeering inside corners.. .

Last edited by M Waechter on Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

by Max Caputi Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:53 pm

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Post n°273

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Post by Max Caputi Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:53 pm

Andrea Lojelo wrote:beh dai...un "...not so bad" da te e' quasi un complimento. Sono commosso! Spero di vederti nel nostro campionato Max. Grazie per il video.

LOL. Cmq di sicuro non ci si annoia a guidarla ! Ci vuole una concentrazione tripla rispetto al solito :-))

by RobertoFaggioni Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:24 pm

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Post n°274

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Post by RobertoFaggioni Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:24 pm

ecco qui la cartella sfx dopo aver messo in mono i sound stereo e invertito i sound int/ext.
Ho testato questo file con voi nel server di A1ring e a me piacciono molto, ma veramente.
Dopo qualche giro mi esalto RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO - Page 11 964932

RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO - Page 11 964932

Per chi volesse provare fatevi prima una copia della cartella SFX che trovate dentro *:\nkpro13\cars\Gvb\ e poi copiate questa
http://www.mediafire.com/file/wsys2bhacicahk3/sfx_mod.rar
Non ho assolutamente modificato niente dei grandi sound di Attilio che ritengo bellissimi e massimo rispetto per il grande lavoro svolto dal Team
Puro divertimento a tutti lol!

Roby

by **giancarlo graziano** Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:39 pm

giancarlo graziano

giancarlo graziano: ---; Posts : 5882
Join date : 2009-05-11
Age : 54
Location : Berlin

Post n°275

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Post by giancarlo graziano Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:39 pm

Max Caputi wrote:

hei Max... NICE DIRIVING....nice video...e spero propio di vedere i tuoi tubi di scappamento in Champ...
WD

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Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

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RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

Re: RSR Gallardo Valentino Balboni: the first add-on car for netKar PRO

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