???????????

by Marco Calesella Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:35 pm

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Post n°26

Re: ???????????

Post by Marco Calesella Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:35 pm

davide zardin wrote:poi mi piacerebbe sapere che ne pensa kunos di questo mod fatto per netkar....

kunos sul forum nK Pro su Drivingitalia wrote:...la mia opinione e' piu' o meno questa.. ok ora sa come mettere i numerini per fare certe cose.. bisogna vedere cosa riesce a tirarci fuori (ammesso che abbia intenzione di farlo) poi sara' il pubblico a giudicare.

by Attilio Barba Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:49 pm

Attilio Barba

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Post n°27

Re: ???????????

Post by Attilio Barba Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:49 pm

davide zardin wrote:si ma alla fine questi mod pubblicati sul forum sono legali o non leciti??? perchè se si apre la strada del mod perchè non darci anche gli strumenti come per le piste(vedi track editor di kunos)???? sono convinto che se usi come base la target o la 2000 con un corpo di una ferrari gt o di una gt3 carrera attirerai quelli che amano le gare con quel tipo di auto.

per sviluppare queste mod, c'è qualcuno che si è preso la briga di lavorare molto, e investire parecchio.
riguardo le due auto modificate potrebbe trattarsi di un semlice mod.

ma il carretto, no, è stato fatto da zero, e non penso da uno smanettone.
nel file di testo di uno dei file si vede un link, penso sia stato messo apposta per sviare, ma dietro tutto questo c'è lo zampino, ripeto
di qualcuno che la sa lunga.

to develop these mods, is there anyone who has bothered to work hard and invest a lot.
about the two cars may be a modified semlice mod.

but the cart, no, it was made from scratch, and I do not think of a geek.
in the text file to a file you see a link, I think it was made on purpose to mislead, but behind it all else a hand, repeat
someone who knows a lot.

by Marco Calesella Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:05 pm

Marco Calesella

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Post n°28

Re: ???????????

Post by Marco Calesella Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:05 pm

davide zardin wrote:si ma alla fine questi mod pubblicati sul forum sono legali o non leciti??? perchè se si apre la strada del mod perchè non darci anche gli strumenti come per le piste(vedi track editor di kunos)???? sono convinto che se usi come base la target o la 2000 con un corpo di una ferrari gt o di una gt3 carrera attirerai quelli che amano le gare con quel tipo di auto.

I think that is surely illegal, since to reach such results a good amount of reverse engineering is needed. Another topic is if kunos will allow to do that.

About the car, I'm convinced of the contrary. An enthusiast of that cars cannot accept such a compromise, so will migrate where he can found a proper simulation of that specific car (for example rFactor).
Point of view, naturally

Last edited by Marco Calesella on Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

by Marco Calesella Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:12 pm

Marco Calesella

Marco Calesella: Driver; Posts : 220
Join date : 2010-09-15
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Post n°29

Re: ???????????

Post by Marco Calesella Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:12 pm

Attilio Barba wrote:...., nel file di testo di uno dei file si vede un link, penso sia stato messo apposta per sviare, ma dietro tutto questo c'è lo zampino, ripeto
di qualcuno che la sa lunga.
.

Attilio, I think there is nothing mysterious, behind this netKar stuff there is Keijo "Kegetys" Ruotsalainen, a very skilled programmer very famous for his utilities for gamers (for example SoftTH, or Triplehead FOV fix for D3D dll etc.).

Last edited by Marco Calesella on Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:52 pm; edited 1 time in total

by M Carey Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:22 pm

M Carey

M Carey: Driver; Posts : 1076
Join date : 2010-04-20

Post n°30

Re: ???????????

Post by M Carey Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:22 pm

I'm not a lawyer, but I think only (for example) removing the trento-bondone & releasing it for rF or something would be considered copyright infringement. The only thing that concerned me really was seeing driver aids enabled. I had always assumed this is possible (as keyboard/mouse players have them activated), but this would be bad news if people started activating them & there was no way to stop these individuals from racing online. I wouldn't be too worried about cars being based on something else though. Kunos doesn't seem to start from scratch, the Osella is based on the FTarget, and the Ks2... well we all know what that's similar to Razz

by Marco Calesella Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:49 pm

Marco Calesella

Marco Calesella: Driver; Posts : 220
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Post n°31

Re: ???????????

Post by Marco Calesella Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:49 pm

From my point of view:
Changing sound and body, but using the exact same original physic of a car, as we were discussing, is one thing.
Starting from a "similar" physic to obtain a different one, as you wrote, is another thing.

The cheat problem is something to take care about, but it was surely possible on netKar (just as any other program) also before kegetys made this "mods".

There are many discussion on it and on possible Ram Cheats, and not only in netKar forums.

by henrizio Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:52 pm

henrizio

henrizio: Driver; Posts : 59
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Post n°32

Re: ???????????

Post by henrizio Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:52 pm

I just tried the UF500. Short wheelbase and RWD is a tricky combo, but very fun to drive. drive

by davide zardin Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:28 pm

davide zardin

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Post n°33

Re: ???????????

Post by davide zardin Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:28 pm

si ma alla fine di tutto di questa discussione sono legali, cioè accettati da tutti e quindi vedremo gare con questi modelli di auto o sono inlegali e quindi inutilizzabili per il gioco on line con altri giocatori?

io penso che se il mod qualunque esso sia se accettato possa essere un vantaggio se no resta una cosa sterile solo al gioco in solitaria visto che il bello di netkar-pro è il confronto in pista.

vorrei solo sapere se sono auto che verranno usate on line o no.

by andi goodwin Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:59 am

andi goodwin

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Post n°34

Re: ???????????

Post by andi goodwin Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:59 am

for me there are two ways that things will go now ,try and fence this in ever harder and stop ppl doing what has already been done ( and i believe its been done a few times ) or educate ppl on how it works properly ...
cheats exist in all forms of gaming from ram hacks to scripting hacks and im sure everyone of you here has been beaten by a cheat , some of the best cheats arent the ones who beat you by a second there the ones who are that few tenths ahead of everyone..
so decisions decisions , personally i hope that there is some help put out there as unofficially this is the final version so lets keep it alive now that all the new interest is there

so please please lets see some how to's and some tools out there as this horse has left the stable and jumped the fence....

Andi

by Jamie Shorting Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:46 pm

Jamie Shorting

Jamie Shorting: Driver; Posts : 103
Join date : 2011-09-14

Post n°35

Re: ???????????

Post by Jamie Shorting Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:46 pm

Who cares about cheats and get a V8 supercar into netkar!! ??????????? - Page 2 964932

by Martin Hussey Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:50 pm

Martin Hussey

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Post n°36

Re: ???????????

Post by Martin Hussey Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:50 pm

Jamie Shorting wrote:get a V8 supercar into netkar!!

This.

But, I (and you should too) care about cheats. They're difficult to prevent as when a patch for a cheat is brought out the 'creator' can just modify the cheat to get around the patch.

It could pretty easily ruin the game, but i dont think theres enough players for it to be a problem just yet.

by Jamie Shorting Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:33 pm

Jamie Shorting

Jamie Shorting: Driver; Posts : 103
Join date : 2011-09-14

Post n°37

Re: ???????????

Post by Jamie Shorting Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:33 pm

Martin Hussey wrote:

Jamie Shorting wrote:get a V8 supercar into netkar!!

This.

But, I (and you should too) care about cheats. They're difficult to prevent as when a patch for a cheat is brought out the 'creator' can just modify the cheat to get around the patch.

It could pretty easily ruin the game, but i dont think theres enough players for it to be a problem just yet.

That's just it! Nobody drives on netkar. A week after the new update and we're back to the same old thing, nobody around. I say lets see what the community can do.

by Martin Hussey Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:40 pm

Martin Hussey

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Post n°38

Re: ???????????

Post by Martin Hussey Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:40 pm

Jamie Shorting wrote:

Martin Hussey wrote:

Jamie Shorting wrote:get a V8 supercar into netkar!!

This.

But, I (and you should too) care about cheats. They're difficult to prevent as when a patch for a cheat is brought out the 'creator' can just modify the cheat to get around the patch.

It could pretty easily ruin the game, but i dont think theres enough players for it to be a problem just yet.

That's just it! Nobody drives on netkar. A week after the new update and we're back to the same old thing, nobody around. I say lets see what the community can do.

netKar will always have a small number of players because its learning curve is akin to slamming face first into a wall, and there is generally not a great deal of help for new players. I'm not going to go into why (i think) this happens because its not the thread and nobody cares anyway Razz

by Tomas Torasen Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:42 pm

Tomas Torasen

Tomas Torasen: Driver; Posts : 89
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Post n°39

Re: ???????????

Post by Tomas Torasen Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:42 pm

Whats the incentive to import a crappy rfactor physics car into netKars envoirement?
Why dont you just play rFactor then? I dont say that to disrespect. The point is that netKar could never compete with rFactor in rFactors platform, which is a much larger community of players and modders. Plus, all the bugs and technology in tracks is just inferior to rFactor. What is superior is car physics and that it is seen and appreciated as the only serious/real physics simulator out there. This will no longer be the case with alot of crappy mods, it will be outcompeted very quickly.
Plus it will draw attention to alot of cheaters and kids that act the age they are on track, just like in all the other sims and arcade games.

I really dont understand how some think.. maybe you think just because a third party crap physics car is imported to netKar it will be as amazing physics as all the other cars?

Jamie Shorting wrote:

Martin Hussey wrote:

Jamie Shorting wrote:get a V8 supercar into netkar!!

This.

But, I (and you should too) care about cheats. They're difficult to prevent as when a patch for a cheat is brought out the 'creator' can just modify the cheat to get around the patch.

It could pretty easily ruin the game, but i dont think theres enough players for it to be a problem just yet.

That's just it! Nobody drives on netkar. A week after the new update and we're back to the same old thing, nobody around. I say lets see what the community can do.

by Jamie Shorting Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:16 pm

Jamie Shorting

Jamie Shorting: Driver; Posts : 103
Join date : 2011-09-14

Post n°40

Re: ???????????

Post by Jamie Shorting Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:16 pm

]Well there are obviously people out there who know what they are doing. Here is another video. I was going to show a video but apparently I'm not allowed. Razz

by davide zardin Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:41 pm

davide zardin

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Join date : 2010-08-05
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Post n°41

Re: ???????????

Post by davide zardin Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:41 pm

per me questa discussione sta diventando ridicola è penso che sia il momento di chiuderla perchè questo è un falso problema.

io amo netkar pro perchè penso che la fisica è la simulazione che ci dà sia fantastica al di là della vetture che ci sono. se qualcuno vuole farsi un parco macchine diverso da quelle che kunos ci ha dato si taglia fuori da solo perchè chi ama questo simulatore (e non gioco) sa che è il migliore come qualità.

chiedetevi perchè nessuno dei grandi appasionati di netkar sono rimasti fuori dalla discussione, secondo me perchè la ritengono sterile che non porterà a nulla di nuovo sui campionati da loro organizzati o dai forum da loro tenuti. ribadisco il concetto che se queste cose non sono ufficiali e quindi legali e meglio che restino furi dalla simulazione.

for me this discussion is becoming ridiculous and I think it's time to close it because this is a false problem.

I love Netke pro because I think that physics is the simulation that gives us is beyond fantastic cars that are there. if someone wants to get a fleet Kunos different from those that gave us just because you cut off those who love this simulator (not game) knows that it is the best in quality.

ask yourself why none of the great lovers of Netke were out of the discussion, I think because the barren that will not lead to anything new on the championships organized by them or forum they held. I reiterate the point that if these things are not official and therefore legal and furi remain better than the simulation.

by Martin Hussey Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:13 pm

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Martin Hussey: Driver; Posts : 273
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Post n°42

Re: ???????????

Post by Martin Hussey Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:13 pm

davide zardin wrote:per me questa discussione sta diventando ridicola è penso che sia il momento di chiuderla perchè questo è un falso problema.

io amo netkar pro perchè penso che la fisica è la simulazione che ci dà sia fantastica al di là della vetture che ci sono. se qualcuno vuole farsi un parco macchine diverso da quelle che kunos ci ha dato si taglia fuori da solo perchè chi ama questo simulatore (e non gioco) sa che è il migliore come qualità.

chiedetevi perchè nessuno dei grandi appasionati di netkar sono rimasti fuori dalla discussione, secondo me perchè la ritengono sterile che non porterà a nulla di nuovo sui campionati da loro organizzati o dai forum da loro tenuti. ribadisco il concetto che se queste cose non sono ufficiali e quindi legali e meglio che restino furi dalla simulazione.

for me this discussion is becoming ridiculous and I think it's time to close it because this is a false problem.

I love Netke pro because I think that physics is the simulation that gives us is beyond fantastic cars that are there. if someone wants to get a fleet Kunos different from those that gave us just because you cut off those who love this simulator (not game) knows that it is the best in quality.

ask yourself why none of the great lovers of Netke were out of the discussion, I think because the barren that will not lead to anything new on the championships organized by them or forum they held. I reiterate the point that if these things are not official and therefore legal and furi remain better than the simulation.

You cant argue that a mod can't be better than an official car. There have been cases in the past where a mod for a game has ultimately become more popular than the original game itself.

by M Waechter Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:22 pm

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M Waechter: Driver; Posts : 755
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Post n°43

Re: ???????????

Post by M Waechter Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:22 pm

Martin Hussey wrote:
netKar will always have a small number of players because its learning curve is akin to slamming face first into a wall, and there is generally not a great deal of help for new players. I'm not going to go into why (i think) this happens because its not the thread and nobody cares anyway

You're right, finally I decided to copy my posting here posted at this place below a few minutes ago and opened a new thread for it, to help some newcomers to set up the car in a probably better way.. .

by davide zardin Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:46 am

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Post n°44

Re: ???????????

Post by davide zardin Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:46 am

martin wrote: You cant argue that a mod can't be better than an official car. There have been cases in the past where a mod for a game has ultimately become more popular than the original game itself

non sto dicendo che alcuni mod non possano essere migliori del gioco originale ma che se non sono legale e condivisi da tutti restano isolati apochi e che non servono a niente

I'm not saying that some mods can not be better than the original game but if they are not shared by all legal and lakeside are isolated and are useless

by M Waechter Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:16 am

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Post n°45

Re: ???????????

Post by M Waechter Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:16 am

Marco Calesella wrote:From my point of view:
Changing sound and body, but using the exact same original physic of a car, as we were discussing, is one thing.
Starting from a "similar" physic to obtain a different one, as you wrote, is another thing.

The cheat problem is something to take care about, but it was surely possible on netKar (just as any other program) also before kegetys made this "mods".

There are many discussion on it and on possible Ram Cheats, and not only in netKar forums.

I have this idea in mind, that programmer Kunos should phone Geoff Crammond, the creator and main programmer of the Grand Prix Series to ask him to adopt the techincal way of replays in
Grand Prix 4 (and its previous versions). In Grand Prix 4 the replays were 'real'..., it contained not just the position datas for the car like NKPro does, it contained all input datas coming from the wheel+pedals at
each frame and contained the whole car- and wheel- setup, so the GP4 program could/can/does reproduce the hotlap 1:1 'live' on screen / in a real way.. by using all this mentioned datas.
-Because of that way the Grand Prix series were able to recreate the replay 1:1 even in the org. / real cockpitview with all the org. wheel movements, sight settings and so on, while NkPro can
only supply the T-cam.

Advantage of this method is, that once someone changed the car-physic on his PC, the replay-file of that guy was not functionable on a PC which has the org. physics.
When you loaded a replay with different physics in GP4 then the car crashed at least at the first corner that was happening on track, because the replay with cheated physics doesn't fit to the org. game then
anymore and that way you could verify very easily, if the lap was real/legal or not... .

I wish santa

Kunos would change his replays at one day in that same way as GP4 used it.. (although I know that in NKPro with its dynamic physics regarding tires and so on those styled replay-files would require
much more data compared to the more 'digatal'/simple GP4, but I'm sure it would be possible to do..) !
Then everyone or in cases with doubt could supply their Grand Prix kind of quali-replay or even the replay of the race after each event and the admins could easily check on their unchanged NKPro, if the
driver kept physics org. or not.
-Just like it was used and done back in all the GP championships, Jaap Waagenvoort can tell about the 'technique' behind the Grand Prix 4 replays as well, he might still know out of his GP leagues he organized
in the past I'm sure Smile

.

But I hope cheating even with some kind modding the physics will never be a problem in NKPro, hope NKPro players will always stay 1:1 fair gentlemen.

by M Carey Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:50 pm

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M Carey: Driver; Posts : 1076
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Post n°46

Re: ???????????

Post by M Carey Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:50 pm

Mods keep games alive, & just like with nKPro & other titles, you quickly discover which are worth downloading.

by henrizio Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:32 pm

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henrizio: Driver; Posts : 59
Join date : 2010-09-22

Post n°47

Re: ???????????

Post by henrizio Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:32 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fkQOHEkLBk&

I wasn't the biggest fan of FVA, but I would take those tracks anytime. ::whistle::

by M Carey Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:35 pm

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Post n°48

Re: ???????????

Post by M Carey Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:35 pm

& the car

by Wally Masterson Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:44 am

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Post n°49

Re: ???????????

Post by Wally Masterson Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:44 am

The question is, what is Kunos going to do about all of this? Ignore it? Waste time trying to stop this kind of thing - time that could be better spent on development? Or head it off at the pass and just release the FVA cars in nkPro (if he can)?

by M Carey Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:56 am

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Post n°50

Re: ???????????

Post by M Carey Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:56 am

Kunos is just the developer, FVA's Ferrari's product.

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