13 Jan 2011: Spa Francorchamps

Pretty disappointed with tonights behaviour. I doubt i'll be continuing with the series as these kind of problems are becoming a regular thing for me.

Scollo, for the love of christ check your mirrors before you leave your pit box. You crashed straight into me during qualifying. Then you escaped back to box and went out again. I *think* it may have been you who later caused me and somebody else to crash, when you pulled into the middle of the track from slow speed.

People were talking, leaving and reconnecting in the middle of race 1, which is as far as i'm aware against the rules.

I do apologise to Zanerini. I checked my mirrors at exactly the time you hit the brakes, and i had nowhere to go. Tried to avoid you but i think i just hit your car with my rear wheel. I also apologise to anyone who had problems as a result of my net disconnecting. This is the other reason for me not continuing. I dont want to cause problems for racers with stable connections.

Thanks again to the RSR guys for putting these events up.

because you want to talk let's talk
First race first lap T1 and write T1
you hit me in the back, luckily my system detects no collision, otherwise the race would be over
server log you see only your contact
28 km left front side ... in T1 ok?
Left-0.889435,
front 2.643265,
speed 28.777092

13:759,RACE_START
43:13:759,SESSION_START
43:22:978,CONTACT,Mika_Raymond_158926935,Fox_Gek_582737815,-0.889435,2.643265,28.777092
43:24:915,CONTACT,Fabio_Grippa_-32218472,Mario_Gilles_73437486,-0.889999,-1.950022,26.741228
43:24:986,CONTACT,Mario_Gilles_73437486,Fabio_Grippa_-32218472,0.880421,2.649954,11.154868
43:25:243,CONTACT,Giancarlo_Graziano_4240123598,Fabio_Grippa_-32218472,-0.889982,1.417542,39.517456
43:26:120,CONTACT,MARCO_LA MONACA_-43597524,Mario_Gilles_73437486,-0.880751,2.649957,29.020800
43:26:406,CONTACT,Tiziano_Rondina_21918562,MARCO_LA MONACA_-43597524,-0.890002,2.649973,40.526058
43:26:948,CONTACT,Oliver _Kreuer_197767352,Tiziano_Rondina_21918562,-0.889998,1.199987,59.165432

I said that you have not left room for me in the overtaking maneuver, just that.
but if you show that replay......
your replay shows something different from my point of view, unfortunately my registration starts from
the next round, but you knew that I was faster than you I've closed,
I tried to brake and the last contact was recorded at a rate low, so low that my car had no damage

if you see the log I have the contact on the left front of my car and brake as much as possible,
my car suffered no damage,
72:32:256,CONTACT,Fox_Gek_582737815,Mika_Raymond_158926935,-0.880213,2.649984,23.758869
72:32:293,CONTACT,Mika_Raymond_158926935,Fox_Gek_582737815,-0.404426,-1.950001,28.812572
-0.880213 left
2.64998 front
23.758869 speed
your machine receives the contact center in the rear to 28 km
-0.404426 left
-1.950001 rear
28.812572 speed
I'm holding break that you can tell from your impact speed is 28 and my 23 .. is decreasing
a curve with 6 full, with a difference in speed over 30 km, in the wake,
and you change direction while I am about to overtake you.
I only said that if I were on the right there was contact,
but close the trajectory in this way with these speeds, this is the result

in chat you told me that it is a racing incident, ok, from what you wrote .. I do not really so.
but if you put the video of this contact, it would be fair that you had also the one where you put me in the first corner pads
evening of fun and beautiful duels with Lallo, the GVR team and others,
I met all having a good step but difficulty in overtaking. Maximum fun.

im sorry fulvio, but now youre talking nonesense.

im not annoyed about us having some contacts - like i said before, thats racing and accidents happen. what im upset about is you blaming me for your mistakes, in which both of our collisions were YOUR fault.
im not going to sit here and take the blame for something i havent done.

the first collision consisted of me and gek having a slight tap in t1, race 1, (server A). for anyone who has seen the replay, you can clearly see i give gek PLENTY of room. in fact you can fit another 2 cars
to the right hand side of him. i give you plenty of space in order to minimise the risk of colliding. but no, what you did was go too fast, slam on the brakes and hit ME. why cant you accept that? blaming me for your
driving error is not the right thing to do. first thing in the morning i will post up a video (like the pouhon accident) to show the users what happened, because im not sitting here after being hit on 2 seperate occasions
(both of them causing me damage and you nothing - something kunos has to look into) and take the blame for something i havent done. they were both your mistakes so just accept them.

dont get me wrong i love you and we have some magnificent races, but i am NOT happy about sitting here and taking the blame for something i havent done. for anyone who is interesed (mainly the admins please) here are both cut down versions of the replays. id very much appreciate it if you took the time to view them. the file is 1mb:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/y066kw

i hope we can move on from this and like i said, im very fond of you and the last thing i want to do is argue. i just want to make my points clear that the incidents werent my fault. no matter what you say, i 100% believe they are your fault

thankyou, goodnight and see you on the servers soon

just a short addition and correction: I edited my previous post...(see above). ->When looking at the replay I found out that noone took any damage after my self-crash in lap1 of race2, it was gladly just a lag crash happening there between F Chesi and me (my car got hit by him, but not his one).. .


As I'm just talking now about lag contacts, I saw another just very little one at the start of race 1:
It looks like De Gioia suffered a light contact while we were driving side by side through the first corner..., but I did not had any contact with his car, so this was a small lag-contact.
So while this situation in the race, I just thought you (De Gioia) were driving to the outside to make some more room for the guys who came from the inside into this corner.
But whatever.., he (De Gioia) suffered just a very very light lag-contact I think (no damage taken by his car I guess), nothing very serious there.. just some little kind of race [lag-]contact.
-I was trying to steer into the first corner as much as it was possible for my current car, so unfortunately I could not went a bit more to the inner right side there.

.

marco boni wrote:siamo alle solite folegati mi a tamponato piegandomi una sospensione posteriore,macchina con volante storto ,dopo di che non contento mi a ritoccato nel curvone dopo il traquardo,ridando un bel colpetto allo sterzo,e poi in sorpasso definitivamente fuori!!!!!!!!!!!!

vedete un po voi
marco

idem

The car had serious damage and it was difficult to control. I hope reaching the box, but effectively in this case it would been better i press ESC before. It was my mistake. I apologyze with damaged driver. Ok Albert. But please dont say i'm an uncorrect driver, it's not the true.

Filippo Chesi wrote:I' had'nt disactivate the autostop for inactivity of my television and when i was in kemmel my monitor begun obscure for some moment and so i damage my car.

Filippo Chesi wrote:
i noted another driver writing bad word not esplicitly against me, but i suspect it. I want to say to this driver and to all the other, that surely i'm a correct driver, that surely in this championship i suffered the errors of some other driver, and that surely i made some errors damaging other drivers. I escuse me for this. But i'm not dishonest, and i'm not less experienced of other to can drive in this competition. But if you want i can retire. I dont want no more read offensive words against me.

Filippo, everyone can do mistakes, and everyone should have his race, no matter what is his level.

We will investigate on what happen, because we don't want people insulting other drivers on our championship, no matter what happened. That's not acceptable.
The respect for other drivers, is one of the main rule in our championship.
I will upload the results, discuss with the rest of the team and let you know shortly.

No one should be authorize to insult other drivers, no matter what!
That's really sad. I'm sorry for that.
We are here for having fun.

Filippo, I just checked the logs, but I can't find anything. Did the say something to you in the chat after the race? Can you please send me a PM with more details? Thanks a lot.

M Waechter wrote:just a short addition and correction: I edited my previous post...(see above). ->When looking at the replay I found out that noone took any damage after my self-crash in lap1 of race2, it was gladly just a lag crash happening there between F Chesi and me (my car got hit by him, but not his one).. .


As I'm just talking now about lag contacts, I saw another just very little one at the start of race 1:
It looks like De Gioia suffered a light contact while we were driving side by side through the first corner..., but I did not had any contact with his car, so this was a small lag-contact.
So while this situation in the race, I just thought you (De Gioia) were driving to the outside to make some more room for the guys who came from the inside into this corner.
But whatever.., he (De Gioia) suffered just a very very light lag-contact I think (no damage taken by his car I guess), nothing very serious there.. just some little kind of race [lag-]contact.
-I was trying to steer into the first corner as much as it was possible for my current car, so unfortunately I could not went a bit more to the inner right side there.

np Waechter only a normal race incident and the usual problems of lag.
I'm happy to be back in the pits and he rejoined the race.

Albert McSaltens wrote:

that's definitely not a correct behavior.
our rules says:
- In case your car is broken (light damage), if you can reach the box without being dangerous for anyone else, you can press FIX and continue your session.

not having the possibility to steer is clearly not a save way to reach the box.

As the video shows that put a lot of other drivers in real danger.
This should never happen again.

Can anyone in group C, upload the replay, please?

report of my race...
2 race 2 incident in t1.... Kicking out badly on start....but like this is some race....some time....
first race I was very carefull but incident in my back...and....one car let my fly arround... -5 lap down
second race.......Maarten S. spin in rettifile..no possible for me to avoid to don t crash on im .... -5lap before t1.......

sometime race is like this.......
see you in A1ring.... hope better luck

replay group A.

http://www.filefront.com/17791601/Graziano_FormulaKS2_spa RSRgruppo A.rar

I dont have the replay of group C.. I never saved a replay before and i i suppose it was saved automatically in the replay folder but it wans't. Why Dellera raced in Group C? In the entry list he was in group B. I think he was in C and at the last momento he was moved to B and he hadn't noticed the change. Next race i will save the replay (i read the manual)

OMG that is just crazy. I don't know how I missed him, just reflex action saved me. unlucky for frankie.

Ieri è stata per me una delle peggiori gare di questo campionato.
In gara 1, vengo colpito al primo giro alla fine del lungo rettilineo dopo l'eau rouge da Steverink, e sono obbligato ad usare ESC ed aspettare 5 giri ai box. Finisco quattordicesimo.
In gara 2 ho cercato di correre con la massima prudenza possibile, riuscendo a recuperare posizioni fino a giungere sesto. Mi dispiace di aver colpito Gilles, ma io vedevo molti metri di spazio fra me e lui, infatti non ho sentito il contatto nè subito danni.

Una domanda: perchè Kreuer, Graziano e Steverink hanno ricevuto punti in gara 1 nonostante i 5 giri giri di ritardo dal leader, percorrendo quindi meno di metà gara?

Considerazione personale: secondo me non si è abbastanza severi con le penalizzazioni, vedo gente che esce e rientra del server, o che non si comporta in modo molto corretto in pista, che non riceve alcuna penalità (questo vale anche per me, se faccio una scorrettezza DEVO e VOGLIO essere penalizzato, fa parte del gioco ).

Detto questo, ci vediamo giovedì prossimo!

Luca Orsetti wrote:
Una domanda: perchè Kreuer, Graziano e Steverink hanno ricevuto punti in gara 1 nonostante i 5 giri giri di ritardo dal leader, percorrendo quindi meno di metà gara?

translated:
why some driver got points at -5 laps (so they did 4/9 laps).

Answer:
Most likely the system takes does like that:
50% of 9 laps = 4.5. Since it's not possible to make >=4.5, then it's rounded to the 4.

That's something new for me also, but it's the way it works.

Luca Orsetti wrote:
Considerazione personale: secondo me non si è abbastanza severi con le penalizzazioni, vedo gente che esce e rientra del server, o che non si comporta in modo molto corretto in pista, che non riceve alcuna penalità (questo vale anche per me, se faccio una scorrettezza DEVO e VOGLIO essere penalizzato, fa parte del gioco ).

translated: luca says that there are a lot of people that are not behaving in a proper way on track, with people that goes in and out from server. That might be due to the fact that we are not penalizing enough.

Answer:
might be, but I think much more to unrespectful drivers! It's not always easy to decide on incidents, and it's very time consuming.
At the end penalizing someone doesn't really solve the problem. Each race I see always the same crazy maneuvers.
Drivers should stick to the rules, just because they should be bored to kill or be killed all the times.

Andrea Lojelo wrote:

Luca Orsetti wrote:
Una domanda: perchè Kreuer, Graziano e Steverink hanno ricevuto punti in gara 1 nonostante i 5 giri giri di ritardo dal leader, percorrendo quindi meno di metà gara?

translated:
why some driver got points at -5 laps (so they did 4/9 laps).

Answer:
Most likely the system takes does like that:
50% of 9 laps = 4.5. Since it's not possible to make >=4.5, then it's rounded to the 4.

That's something new for me also, but it's the way it works.

Luca Orsetti wrote:
Considerazione personale: secondo me non si è abbastanza severi con le penalizzazioni, vedo gente che esce e rientra del server, o che non si comporta in modo molto corretto in pista, che non riceve alcuna penalità (questo vale anche per me, se faccio una scorrettezza DEVO e VOGLIO essere penalizzato, fa parte del gioco ).

translated: luca says that there are a lot of people that are not behaving in a proper way on track, with people that goes in and out from server. That might be due to the fact that we are not penalizing enough.

Answer:
might be, but I think much more to unrespectful drivers! It's not always easy to decide on incidents, and it's very time consuming.
At the end penalizing someone doesn't really solve the problem. Each race I see always the same crazy maneuvers.
Drivers should stick to the rules, just because they should be bored to kill or be killed all the times.

Ok I understood everything. Sorry if I do not write in English, but I do not trust google translate...

In my opinion, rules must be enforced fully, or not at all. If one person see's another get away with something they shouldnt, they're more likely to do it themselves. We also need more severe punishments. Disqualifications and such for avoidable incidents and improper behaviour. We ALL know the rules. THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR CARELESS/STUPID DRIVING.

I degree whit both of you...wen we was starting the champ...and get the full mode failure, found out the ghost incident(every replay look different....and flashycars is always around...)... we decide to don t be so hard whit punishments and disqualifications...
and we was THINKING THIS CHAMP CAN BE LIKE THE PASS CHAMP,...WHIT LOT OF RESPECT ,GOOD BEHAVOIR AND RESPETING FULLY THE RULES....

BUT AFTER 5 RACE I FOUND OUT MOST IN THE REPLAY...LOT , A LOT OF BAD STUFF.....LIKE YOU WRITE IN YOUR POST.....AND MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRREEEE


..and...
We ALL know the rules. THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR CARELESS/STUPID DRIVING.
so wait for a black list.......

During the GPC championship i couldnt understand why we had full mode. It irritated me.

Now, though. I'm cursing that we dont have it. I didnt realise how dishonest people could be. Another thing is that it is a lot of the experienced drivers who should know better. If you escape to pit then drive back out, its cheating. Thats it.

Also, there is a lot of arrogance amongst the more experienced drivers. I dont care if you are a faster driver. During a race people will battle to hold position. Just because you're faster, dont expect the driver in front to just roll over and let you past without a fight. Dont pass in stupid places, dont force people off the road, and dont be an arse if you hit somebody.

I've been in so many races (thankfully not on rsr yet) where certain drivers have driven dangerously to get past, and caused accidents as a result. If you're faster and i know i cant hold you off, i'll move over when its safe. I'm not going to ruin my own race just so you can get past me.

Show a little respect, and maybe you wont find yourselves in so many accidents.

[/uber rant]

EDIT BY THE MODERATOR! please don't ever write things like that in our forum if you don't want to be banned for life!

...what really put me down..is the view of different replays of a same race....
first...the ghost , I call car that in a second/bit come back to you ..and your race is finish..whit a crash..but the car that hit you ..continue whit out damage,
2... lag a go go
3.. different lag in a different replay..in a same place or incident.
4 distance incident....car get crash in a distance... and the second drivers don t feel the damage ..+ boooooooommmmm..
5 fly cars like a missile for a little pushing, and plus++ the car that push?!?!?! NO DAMAGE.!!!
AMAZING...no easy to penalize..or found out..
I found out that we was organize this champ may be bit early for the k2... need some fix..
whit out we only need to wait and may be made a future champ whit a f2 or f3.....
we have a long discussion whit a team for all the problem.. of an/real racing and bad code ghost ecc,
and realy no solution...whit out some fix... what a pity ...o a shame!

sorry for my bad english

keep on moving , don t stop the engine and we try to enjoy the A1ring days

yep its a shame that netkar is the only simulator i came accross that has this problems, and since 2006 still no solution :S im afraid its never gonna be fixed

here is mine and gek's other accident:



i understand these things can happen because its racing - i accept that, but when he blames both incidents on me when i have done absolutely nothing wrong is beyond me. im very upset about it. just because you are an admin does not mean you can blame other people for your mistakes - and that goes for everyone. i am a fair, clean, sensible and responsible driver, and to be blamed for both incidents has seriously pissed me off. this is not the RSR way gek... you should think about apologising to me because im not happy about being blamed on when they were both clearly your fault throwing numbers and statistics at me to argue your case is irrelivant because nothing tells a story better than replays.

i hope people will learn from this. if you cause a mistake and you know its your fault, apologies are 100x better than blame. if people continue to act like this in the championship then im in no position to return for the next season. something needs to be done soon because many people are getting wound up because of these things.

Chesi - im very shocked at how irreponsible your driving was in the video. i wouldnt even dare to attempt to get back to the pits after that crash. sitting on the corners and going 30kmh round a mid-high speed track is not acceptable. a championship cannot be run without people taking some sort of responsibilty. you have to learn from your mistakes and make sure these things never happen again